Safety and Selfishness

[Surfing-Innovation]

Just as an offshoot of the thread where one member thinks wearing a leash is 'not cool', and following on from a summer of watching idiotic antics in the water, I thought I'd ask whether it's just me, or does anyone else get annoyed at the sheer ignorance of many people who try surfing.

From the numerous threads on the subject, it appears many are totally confused by many aspects of surfing etiquette (but at least if they're on here they generally get put straight) - so should it be the requirement of all surfers to have a 'safety test' and carry insurance?? (I know some places where insurance is a must - as is the wearing of leashes)

Should everyone have to have a licence - gained after a basic lesson on safety, water craft and etiquette - or should hire shops shoulder some responsibility before hiring out boards???

Just curious as to anyone else's thoughts on this ............

[isaluteyou]

As far as i see it almost every new surfer including myself walked into the water very ignorant of etiquette and such. As far as i see it if a new surfer is doing something totally wrong - someone should explain what to do rather than just tell them to get the flesh out of the water.

In truth its not new surfers you have to worry about as by the time they are out in the lineup they should have gained enough experience to get by. Its the experienced gimboy surfers you have to watch out for. To which theres not much you can really do.

The only time i will actually say something to these gimboys is if they put me in danger.

As far as the leashing thing i think everyone can gather my opinion on it. If you are only putting yourself in danger who the flesh cares.

However in saying that - gonna contradict myself here - Ignorance is no excuse there are several places to learn etiquette here included

[Surfing-Innovation]

isy - I agree what you're saying about the semi-experienced (and sometimes very experienced) guys probably being more of a danger (there's a guy who appears in numerous DVDs who surfs at Saunton who's an absolute dick and deliberatley aims at people he takes a dislike to) - but do you think that could be avoided if they were forced into carrying insurance (public liability) and made to take a test of their competence in the water??

I also think new surfers CAN be a big danger to themselves and others on smaller days - because it generally means they can get themselves into the lineup and create havoc, whereas on bigger days they can't ........

I agree that ignorance is no excuse - most decent surf breaks have signs about etiquette - but I do think surf hire shops should be doing their bit too - rather than just taking people's money and sending them out.

[isaluteyou]

but do you think that could be avoided if they were forced into carrying insurance (public liability) and made to take a test of their competence in the water??

Althought the idea has its merits I think that it kinda shifts away from the spirit of surfing why add even more red tape to the sport. Surfing is an excape from red tape for the most part

but I do think surf hire shops should be doing their bit too - rather than just taking people's money and sending them out.

Agree with that - seen a lot of people on hire boards paddling out into fairly sketchy spots with no idea what they are doing - i mean its not exactly hard to give a 2 minute lesson before they send them on their merry way.

The unfortunate thing with a lot of new surfers is that they just dont want to take advice. Like me trieng to tell some guy he shouldnt paddle out on a certain reef because he lacked the experience. well he ended up getting all cut up. Or the other time i try to tell some one that they are not paddling correctly i ended up getting a long blank stare as if i was some moron. I just laughed and paddled off.

[joem]

i know of some hire shops that have notices about the rules of surfing

[Surfing-Innovation]

isy - again, agreeing with pretty much all you say and I'm far from advocating lots of red tape - but this country (UK - don't know whether it's true your side of the pond) has an ever increasing culture of blaming everyone else and not taking any personal responsibility and I for one am growing tired of it - because some people use it as an excuse to do exactly as they please without any regard for anyone other than themselves.

I don't really know what the answer is, but as surfing is such a good example of a self regulating sport, perhaps it would be nice if we DID try to keep it safe for all by clamping down on the dangerous or selfish behaviour??

Dunno - just my thought for the day I s'pose..........

[isaluteyou]

would be nice if everyone acted with respect and regards to others safety. Unfortunatly this is larger issue not just confined to surfing. So the solution is on a much grander scale.

as with anything there are those who show respect and those who dont. Best thing to do is ignor the idiots and just laugh at them and not with them - unless they are mentaly challenged they will get the idea. You cant help those who dont

[joem]

we should drop in on people wth out leashes

[Johnny B]

- so should it be the requirement of all surfers to have a 'safety test' and carry insurance?? (I know some places where insurance is a must - as is the wearing of leashes)

No way!

Surfing (to me at least) is all about freedom, take that away, regulate things and you take something sooo good and just...lessen the goodness (check out the extensive vocab!)

C'mon, surfing isn't really that dangerous is it? Not in England anyway. Sure people get hurt, but it usually their own daft fault, and the accidents that involve others (again I speak only for yer average UK breaks) aren't too bad are they? We live in a nanny state as it is! I mean, you hurt yerself at work or at the supermarket and someone else gets blamed, not you for not being careful! It's daft! You go surfing you take a risk, that's all there is to it.

I dislike arrogant and disrespectful surfers as much as the next person, but they're an annoyance more than anything! Driving licenses don't stop people driving like t!ts so why should a surfing license stop people surfing like morons. Personally, I think it is the repsonsibility of surfers who do no where its at to educate those who don't! I for one would hope that anyone I surfed with would let me know if I where commiting some faux pas I had not noticed and I would and have told others when I think their surfing has been disrespectful!

I do agree, however, that surf schools and surf lessons should involve basic etiquette training. And also, perhaps there should be more of those posters with the surf "laws" on for those starting out. But I don't think that is necessarily the responsibilty of surf hire shops etc but that of the surf community as a whole. If you personally think it is a problem at your local break surely it wouldn't be much hassle to print a few of them out an pin 'em up?

And, again, it's not going to do owt about those experienced surfers in the line who just don't give a damn.

Rant over.

...J...

[joem]

the guy has a point we all have to take responisblity for our selves and not blame others when we get hurt, but we should be alowed to do that (and be alowd to get plasterd if we want)

[flyingvee]

As long as rookie surfers (like me) use common sense and surf within their limits, everyone is happy. Of course there is always going to be the few idiots who spoil it and deserve to have their arses kicked......

[northswell]

Didn't read all this cos its too whiney.

Surf where new surfers can't, show respect to locals and get on with it. Its busy ffs nowts going to change.

[Surfing-Innovation]

I was going to reply, but I guess NS's attitude says it all .........

[Roy Stewart]

Clamping down on 'selfish' behaviour is total BS, stop whining and paddle harder. . . . surfing is a competitive sport, man up or give up.

As for leashes, I surf crowded spots without a leash on wooden boards weighing up to 70 pounds, and after 33 years of standup surfing have an excellent safety record. Leashes are a menace in many cases.

The last thing any of us need is police regulation of lineups, it's appalling that you suggest such a thing. . . anyone who wants government officials monitoring the lineup is just a grumpy loser with the mind of a parking meter attendant

.

[Roy Stewart]

we should drop in on people wth out leashes

That is a moronic attitude, and if attempted on one of my waves could lead to you geting run down by a 12 foot wooden board and rider, although I would do my best to avoid you.

.

[Surfing-Innovation]

WOW - talk about an idiotic standpoint!!

Well done to you for proving the point that it isn't just the kooks who are dangerous!!

[Roy Stewart]

Read carefully you fool. . . I have standup surfed surfed for 33 years without injuring anyone, and in fact performed a rescue upon request using one of my boards without a leash . . . two exhausted teenagers swept way out in a rip

Leashes are a menace in some situations. . . and the Duke didn't wear one.

[Dec]

the Duke didn't wear one.

Duke didn't have 400 people crowding up waikiki or diamond!

Hey, policing sounds like a good idea in concept and I think it would work, but like others have said; it's not what surfing is really about.

As for leashes, if you don't wear one you have to be a very competent surfer or idiotic. Leashes do save lives. If you're caught out my a big set and you have nothing to hold you afloat afterwards...it would really suck!

[Surfing-Innovation]

That is a moronic attitude, and if attempted on one of my waves could lead to you geting run down by a 12 foot wooden board and rider, although I would do my best to avoid you.

Something tells me you'd run over the person as long as you
a)thought you could get away with it
b)were bigger than them and thought they wouldn't fight back

TBH, I don't really care how long you've been surfing, your attitude sucks. You remind me of the guy down at Saunton - perfectly capable surfer who likes to ride at (but mostly just about manages to miss or be avoided by) other people in the water in order to be the big macho surfer.

Bet you're really proud, eh ...........

[joem]

we should drop in on people wth out leashes

That is a moronic attitude, and if attempted on one of my waves could lead to you geting run down by a 12 foot wooden board and rider, although I would do my best to avoid you.

.

1 word irony, and leashes like seatbelts prevent more injurys than they cause