Holding on to the board... Or not!

[surferbee]

Are you talking about getting caught inside on an outside cleanup set? Or, after coming off a wave? Or just not being able to make it out?

If it's the first one, timing the sets can help. If it's the second one, try to exit the wave sooner. Or, maybe don't try to paddle straight back out from where you exit. For example, at one break I surf, most surfers will exit the water if they get caught inside and run back down the beach to where the rip is rather than try to fight the inside current and the shorepound. If it's the third one, all of the above advice is sound, but sometimes the most efficient route out is not the shortest route. Some shifting beach breaks can demand a zig-zag, a big dog leg, or a right angle approach (out and over) to make it out the easiest.

[RinkyDink]

What do the more experienced surfers with bigger boards do? I’m always busy staying alive at these moments, so I haven’t really seen how everyone’s getting out back when it gets big & nasty. I know where the rips typically are, but they are of little help on these days. Thanks for any advice/criticism in advance!

I found this video helpful.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihgsQ8acYiI

It kind of plays into the theme of rebounding water and its effects on surfers. I've been fixated on this theme for a while. Anyway, at the :00 second mark you see the first wave of about a six wave set break. Remember, five more waves are going to come rolling through. Those waves aren't going to lap up the berm of a sandy beach, though. They're going to ram into the side of a rock shelf. I ask myself where is all that water going to go; it's getting pushed into a rock wall and it's going to get squeezed and squirted into some direction. At :15 second mark it doesn't look like there is much of a current pulling on the surfer in any direction too strongly. At the 1:40 mark though, it definitely appears like a cross current has appeared and is pulling the surfer to the left. I think the water is hitting those rocks, finding the path of least resistance (which happens to be the side on the left of the screen), and you can see the surfer get picked up by the rip that has formed and helped to the outside. At the 2:04 mark you can definitely see the strengthening of the rip in the direction to the left of the screen.

Personally, I wouldn't paddle out where the surfer in the video started paddling. I wouldn't paddle in front of a rock shelf with sucking water around and under it. Been there, done that in my youth However, I did wonder if maybe the backwash bouncing off the rocks might form a rip that you could use to get outside. Nevertheless, on big days I don't play with rocks. My point is that observing the different factors at play at a surf spot can help you figure out ways to simplify your surfing. Being able to spot and take advantage of a rip current is one of them.

[Big H]

That video, the guy is paddling out in the wrong place.....you can see from the foam on the surface that he's going right at the throat of the waves, paddling right at the furthest breaking waves.....the camera pans down the beach and you can see it's easier further down with breaks in the waves and the wave itself breaking closer in. Anyhow, he was in the teeth of the set as well; bigger board you could go down the beach, time the set and get out back in the couple of minutes lull between sets. Shorter board maybe not but wouldn't be fighting the same walls of whitewater and potential disaster of being dashed on the rocks.

[RinkyDink]

That video, the guy is paddling out in the wrong place.....you can see from the foam on the surface that he's going right at the throat of the waves, paddling right at the furthest breaking waves.....the camera pans down the beach and you can see it's easier further down with breaks in the waves and the wave itself breaking closer in. Anyhow, he was in the teeth of the set as well; bigger board you could go down the beach, time the set and get out back in the couple of minutes lull between sets. Shorter board maybe not but wouldn't be fighting the same walls of whitewater and potential disaster of being dashed on the rocks.

I completely agree. I suspect the surfer might have had a kook moment. He's lucky he was in good enough shape to get out of there. Your average SUP rider would have probably been toast It's possible that area he was in has a nice little rip that forms that you can get slotted into on a 3 foot day, but on a 10 foot day it's a different ball game. Who knows? I'm not familiar with that spot.

[tomthetreeman]

The surfer is clearly in the wrong spot to get out, but healthy and determined enough to make it. Good grief, that is a strong paddler!

Tom

[RinkyDink]

The surfer is clearly in the wrong spot to get out, but healthy and determined enough to make it. Good grief, that is a strong paddler!

Tom

Yep, he deserves some kudos for never losing control of his board. The more I think about it though, he probably went out there to avoid the paddle-out. Derp. (I don't why that didn't occur to me? Probably because I don't normally do that myself.) There's actually a long rock outcropping in the area he was in. I figure when he entered the water he probably got on the wrong side of it. Maybe he couldn't see it. So then he had to paddle out straight to get enough distance to get around the outcropping and get over to the lineup. Anyway, too much speculation

[oldmansurfer]

I don't know what was going through that surfers mind when all this happened although perhaps if he has done this before he is aware of what he is in for. It may just be an acceptable risk for him. Maybe this happens one out of five times he goes out and he is willing to put up with the one time in order to have the other numerous times when the strategy works.

[pmcaero]

This is a the most comprehensive tutorial I found on turtle rolling

[BoMan]

That video, the guy is paddling out in the wrong place.....you can see from the foam on the surface that he's going right at the throat of the waves, paddling right at the furthest breaking waves.....the camera pans down the beach and you can see it's easier further down with breaks in the waves and the wave itself breaking closer in. Anyhow, he was in the teeth of the set as well; bigger board you could go down the beach, time the set and get out back in the couple of minutes lull between sets. Shorter board maybe not but wouldn't be fighting the same walls of whitewater and potential disaster of being dashed on the rocks.

Agree. This thread speaks volumes about the importance of studying the water before paddling out....and keeping your eye on it throughout the session. In my last time out, a hole appeared in the sandbar creating a flat spot that I could use to get out. On the downside, the refraction that normally creates beautiful lefts for this old goofy shifted to close everything out. I paddled out early because it was just too dangerous to risk getting pitched over the rock patch. Further down shore, I watched shortboarders getting 2 second barrels before the curtain closed. I'd never make it with a longboard and just don't see the fun in getting hammered!

[oldmansurfer]

Getting hammered is part of surfing as I see it. Not necessarily something to avoid. You need to be in shape and have good technique for dealing with it. I disagree. Getting hammered is part of the fun of surfing.

[billie_morini]

Thanks for all the replies, guys. The beach break where I’ve had it handed to me can definitely be treacherous at shoulder high... And right down the street is a point break that you need a longboard to catch, even at shoulder to head high, it’s so mellow. The interval at the beach break is usually short, so it’s often a difficult paddle out, even when it’s not huge.

The advice on turtle rolling is awesome, thanks! I think that’s the missing part of my technique (Although I’m just barely getting proficient at duck diving... Working on it still!)

I’ll watch the Art of Longboarding again - It’s been a while!

Thanks again fellas!

Tom

Happy to see this from you, Tom, because I was going to say, "Use the turtle roll."

[billie_morini]

An informative set of turtle roll diagrams:

[waikikikichan]

I don’t agree with how photo #3 is illustrated. The wedge is backwards if there is space between the head and deck , but yet no space between the feet and deck. Also with the feet “on” the deck, it’s inactive.
I would pull the deck to my forehead to create a wedge and kick like hell with both feet under the water. Plus I would grab further up the nose than in the drawing.

[RinkyDink]

I don’t agree with how photo #3 is illustrated. The wedge is backwards if there is space between the head and deck , but yet no space between the feet and deck. Also with the feet “on” the deck, it’s inactive.
I would pull the deck to my forehead to create a wedge and kick like hell with both feet under the water. Plus I would grab further up the nose than in the drawing.

My thoughts on the turtle roll are that you need to get the nose of your board under the surface of the water (10-15 inches). That means when I turn over on my roll I pull the nose of the board down. I've been pulling the nose down and then kicking my legs in a swimming motion to get as far under as possible. That has never worked very well. Now I see my solution though. I'm going to pull the front of the board down while I simultaneously push the lower half of the board up with my foot. If all goes well, the front of the board will be pointed toward the sea floor while I push the lower half of the board up into the passing white water. In theory, the pressure I put on the board with my foot (pushing up into the wave) combined with my pulling the nose further beneath the surface should put my board into a deeper dive. Maybe even deep enough to where I can turn right side up under the surface. I hope I'm going to work on it and see what happens. Anyway, I disagree with the guys in the video who talk about creating a seal with the board flat on the water. That'll work, but I think I can improve on it. In my opinion, the board should be at an angle pointing to the sea floor and not flat.

[oldmansurfer]

Yeah in the video they show how to do a turtle roll on waves that don’t require a turtle roll. If they want to demonstrate it they need to do it on waves that aren’t so easy to go through. I wouldn’t turtle roll on any of those waves. As for the angle of the board if there is some wall below the whitewater then flat is good but if there is no wall below the whitewater then you need to pull the nose down. I guess also if you should want to turtle roll small gutless waves like in the video then flat is also good.

[BoMan]

The surfer in the video rises to one knee before rolling over and creates greater downward momentum than rolling from a prone position. It makes sense that this would get the nose deeper under a foam wall. Next sesh, I'll give it a try.

[RinkyDink]

As for the angle of the board if there is some wall below the whitewater then flat is good but if there is no wall below the whitewater then you need to pull the nose down. I guess also if you should want to turtle roll small gutless waves like in the video then flat is also good.

I'm not sure what you mean by the "wall below the whitewater". My reasoning for angling the board and pointing the nose toward the sea floor is because I want the approaching wave to push my board deeper underwater rather than getting underneath the nose of the board (board too flat as whitewater connects with it), lifting the board (whitewater gets under the nose), ripping it out of my hands, and then dragging me and the board toward shore. Those things should be less likely if the board is angled down toward the bottom, in my opinion. Anyway, that's my current approach to turtle rolling, but I'll probably modify it or abandon it if it's not working. By the way, I'm not saying that's the "correct" way; it's just the technique I'm working on.

[Big H]

The surfer in the video rises to one knee before rolling over and creates greater downward momentum than rolling from a prone position. It makes sense that this would get the nose deeper under a foam wall. Next sesh, I'll give it a try.

Try just reaching up then rolling.....like WKK said earlier if you hold nearer to the nose the board and body will make a wedge and your weight will naturally pull the nose down, even at smaller sizes ( ). Less work for the same result, and a higher profile going to one knee can slow your forward momentum....I try my best to visualise diving under the wave and moving forward whether with turtles, duck diving or duck dipping.....goal is to get out back and anything that slows momentum is detrimental to the cause.

[oldmansurfer]

I find it difficult to do a duck dive where I go right back on the board and can paddle immediately. I can do that sometimes but often I am getting pummeled too much and it takes me a bit to get back on the board which is why I do duck dips because I get pummeled but I am still on the board and ready to go immediately. I also put my hands more forward than the video to turtle roll. I kind of dive and roll unless I am using the board for protection from the lip then I kind of flip and pull the board down.

[oldmansurfer]

I meant turtle roll I find it difficult to do a turtle roll where I come right back up