how do you rate your level of surfing?

[Monkey4450]

I think the rating system is actually pretty good. I think of it as a base-10 logarithmic scale - then it makes more sense

[Tudeo]

4+ = 4+++++++++++++

[Big H]

I think the rating system is actually pretty good. I think of it as a base-10 logarithmic scale - then it makes more sense

It is a scale for a school or similar enterprise......a scale per their needs will thin slice the learning stages so that the staff can more accurately address the various issues that face surfers at these early stages of development.......once you get to 3.5 you make DBBB's category of "can surf" having just graduated from "can't surf".....so the surfsimply's role is going to be much less influential or needed if at all in a person who can do all the basics but just needs water time and practice to continue to improve.....they focus and their business is on getting raw beginners riding "unbroken" and "green" waves.......they could give two whistles about someone working on more advanced aspects....they don't deal with the "can surf" segment of the surfing population, so their scale that they designed, made and use ends shortly after the "can surf" plateau is achieved.

On the other hand, there must be surf coaches who specialise in coaching up young prodigy competitive surfers.....I would imagine that they would not have any interest in teaching a raw beginner, but only take students on who are already at competition level but want to improve.....I googled randomly and came up with a website from the academy of surfing instructors.....no idea who they are but they have their surf training broken into 10 levels....I took the middle of the three intermediate levels at random and this is what they are:

Level 5 Intermediate Surfer

The participation course is the second stage in learning intermediate surfing skills. Students attend workshop sessions to assist in gaining information and skills at the intermediate level. But, additional practice is required to achieve competency.

Available at ASI Accredited Surf Schools

Participation Certificate Course
Aim Perform cutback & re-entry, and identify types of boards suitable for your ability and conditions.
Prerequisite ASI Intermediate Surfer Level 4 skills and competence
Outcomes
Identify how parts of your board affect performance
Identify the different types of fins and fin systems
Identify surfboard damage
Choose a surfboard for the intermediate surfer based on personal style and the surfing conditions
Identify surfing safety and assistance clothing

Perform and link surfing manoeuvres

Top and bottom turn (forehand & backhand)
Cut-back (forehand)
Re-entry (forehand)
Resources ASI Learn to Surf Intermediate Level manual
ASI Learn to Surf Intermediate Level 5 student workbook or logbook

Certificate
Issued ASI Intermediate Surfer Level 5 Participation Certificate
Duration

Attend 8 x learn to surf sessions (2 hrs each).

To become competent at this level will take approximately 250 - 500 hours of additional practice. (complete in your own time or with surfing instructor).


Again it begs the question, why does a surfer need to classify their level? A school or training program must; otherwise how would they know what to teach or how to measure successful achievement? So each school creates their own scale and measures depending on what they teach and specialise in......anyhow, I like the can't surf, can surf, shredder designations if one has to be assigned....then it's just dependent on the venue....for instance, I get asked to join a group going to a break....that day it is 6ft Hawaiian, and the break they are going to is hollow and famous for getting shacked....that's the only reason people hit this spot on a swell.....or the same group goes to the same spot on a day where waves are shoulder to head high and a little fat because the tide is up and swell down....I must have a measure of my ability and what I am able to do and if I can or will join the group or not.....even the rough categorisation of "can surf vs. can't surf" will be dependent on conditions as I could and couldn't the two examples given...being able to sort that goes way beyond even detailed "advanced beginner" or "stage two intermediate" descriptors and is entirely dependent on all variables that can be included.....vs. going to a surf camp and getting a colour coded name tag that corresponds with your "level" and what spot you will surf that day.....a necessary evil but not one needed in my daily life....



I do like the 250-500 hours of additional practice part........at least they are being realistic.....

[Big H]

Then how does someone who wants to improve determine what they should be learning?

I suppose you could use someone else's example of what should be learned in what sequence....I will look the website over that I posted the thing from later tonight.....curious as to what they think should be taught in what order.....they have a lot more experience than me so there must be something in it.....but then again, when I go out I can't always practice A, B and C....today the break I went to had a crowded inside beach break close out section and an outside peak that was closing out today....you could link the two by taking the big drop on the outside, then riding the reform whitewater thru the flats until it built into a proper wall again for the inside close out section that needs a kick out before the walls start to feather over....no space to practice a cut back with today's conditions....the inside section is so fast that if you were to cut back you'd be swallowed by the wave.....so today's practice for me was to practice late drops and setting the rail as fast as I could (not very fast at this point) on the biggest waves coming through the outside peak (head high or a bit above was the biggest and had to wait every 20min for those)....then force my way thru the flats (or not, after two waves to the inside I just tail stalled out and went back to the outside) then top to bottom on the inside section, though I had to bail twice because the groms down there are learning and running into each other....how they can't see me coming on my 9'6" means they just aren't looking ....one kid had a look on his face after dropping in on me then realising what was bearing down on him that was priceless....so I just stayed out of the demolition derby after that.....point is sometimes I have an agenda, other times I am just struggling to make a wave, and others I just want to do comfortable things, but regardless, I have to adjust to the waves that I am given, which isn't always conducive for Checklist Development Practice Sessions......

[oldmansurfer]

Interesting thoughts there Big H. I think if you want to learn to surf you have to gauge if you are learning somehow. Some way to measure how you are progressing. If you are happy just riding whitewater straight in then maybe not. You know that surfsimply set made me think perhaps surf instructors are slowing down people from learning to surf by creating those first two steps. I learned to surf 2 times and neither time did I do those first two steps. The first time I learned I was an extremely good paipo boarder. Simply put there was no way in hell I was goin to ride whitewater or go straight into the beach. I was getting deeply tubed in double overhead waves and then I was going to ride whitewater? NO WAY!!! Both times I tried to catch unbroken waves. If I got caught by whitewater then I would try to get to the unbroken face and if I could not it was cut out and head back out.

I hear you and others say they have times where they feel like they backslide. Thinking about that perhaps I had similar experiences but it never bothered me. I figured it was due to the waves. Each wave is different and you have to learn how to deal with what is there. Difficulty catching waves when before you didn't means the waves changed, you changed or your board changed. If you didn't exercise or surf for a while or overexercised then maybe you changed. If you are using a different board then DUH!!! It's likely if neither of those two scenarios happened then the waves are different.

[drowningbitbybit]

even the rough categorisation of "can surf vs. can't surf" will be dependent on conditions

That's a good point actually - my 3-point scale (can't, can, advanced) is always from the water on the day. You're right in that it doesn't work at a theoretical or beach-side level, only once you're out in the water and you're working out "will they make it?"

[drowningbitbybit]

Then how does someone who wants to improve determine what they should be learning?

I think of it in two parts - the first is identifying problems and trying to fix them, and the second is simply what I feel like giving a go (which will usually depend on the waves I'm on at the time).
I guess when you're a complete newbie it's simpler (catch wave... then stand up... then pop-up properly... etc), but once you've got the basics down it's either improving whatever holds you back or advancing to whatever will increase your range of waves/enjoyment/tricks/whatever.

If I have an issue (oh, I have so many issues ) with my surfing, I'll pick a small-ish day, find a spot to myself, not worry about looking like a kook, and repeat/modify/repeat until I get it right.

If I want to try something new, and the waves are suitable, I'll work it out in my head, then give it a go... then repeat/modify/repeat. This is usually for "tricks" by which I mean something you don't need to do but something you want to do. For example, I once spent a week attempting to do a 360º off the lip on perfect medium-sized waves... never made it once!
But I did learn a lot in the process

[drowningbitbybit]

Oh... and another thing... the throwaway move at the end of the wave. You've ridden the wave, you've done your thing, it's almost all over anyway... try something that you almost certainly won't make. Like a 360º off the lip

[waikikikichan]

I'm not going to give my rating scale for the students I teach, but I can tell you it's more what you can't do. That Surf Simply rating doesn't take into account the "Can't". If you can do turns and cutbacks BUT only front side, then what level are you ? You can take the drop and bottom turn, but you can't kick out and jump off your board at the end of the wave. What level are you then ? I got a friend that charges 20+ feet waves, but has a hard time in 2 feet waves.

[oldmansurfer]

My end of the wave closeout maneuver is a floater so obviously I have a bit to go before the 360 off the lip trick. Seriously I have never done any kind of 360 surfing other than while underwater getting pounded by the waves but I used to think it was a maneuver I could do, I just never tried to. Don't know if I can do it now but there is a thought, try it as a throw away at the end of the wave. I think if you surf more often or longer than me or you have consistent waves then it's easier to pick a maneuver to learn. long ago once I got reliably consitent in all the usual stuff then I would either do something by accident or see something another surfer did either in real life or in a magazine (no internet in those days) Then I would be keenly alert for the chance to do that maneuver. you know one of the great things about surfing is you can set your own goals however high low or sideways or whatever, it's up to you. Recently I did my first ever backside floater. It was fun and I wasn't even trying to do it I just hit the lip and the wave broke below me and I went along with it. Recently I wanted to work on my frontside cutbacks on bigger waves and suddenly there wasn't be any bigger frontside waves for months now.

[Big H]

I'd pay money to see a 60+ year old man throw a 360 on an 8' board!

[oldmansurfer]

that is a 200 pound 62 year old man doing a 360 on a 8 foot board on a wave with a 10 foot face. It doesn't seem such a difficult thing to do really but if I get my cutbacks down really well then it's just a little more than that but for now first things first......well unless I decide to do it as a hail Mary end of the wave maneuver.

[oldmansurfer]

Or if it is an off the lip maneuver it just going one way instead of the other. I mean often it seems like it straight up the face then back down at a slight angle but from the straight up the face positon it's just a matter of turning the other way....I think

[drowningbitbybit]

obviously I have a bit to go before the 360 off the lip trick

Me too as it turns out

[Big H]

I don't question your ability OMS or your drive......don't take this the wrong way.......

that is a 200 pound 62 year old man doing a 360 on a 8 foot board on a wave with a 10 foot face.

....but I'm paying double!

[Big H]

M Seriously I have never done any kind of 360 surfing other than while underwater getting pounded by the waves

This made me smile.

[oldmansurfer]

I know once I did a turtle roll and the wave grabbed me and the board which I managed to hang on to and turned me more than 360 degrees lenthgwise you know head over feet then feet over head then I ended up with the board under me and when I checked after getting in from the session a couple hours later there were multiple pressure dings which fit my fingers on both sides where I grabbed it. No leashes in those days. But now that I am thinking about it I may try this 360 thing especially if I use the 8 foot board but now I am surfing a 7'6" board trying to get used to it. I'll have to see how it performs frontside on overhead waves which I haven't had much of yet. I am going to do mental imaging to get ready for it. The 8 foot board has lots of rocker and I can push the tail and slide the fins in turns with it so I imagine it will do it. Not too sure with the new board.

[oldmansurfer]

Here is KS on how to do it http://www.surfline.com/surflinetv/trick-tips/carving-360_31808

[Tudeo]

I like this divide in surfing level by Surfsimply, the floater for creating enough speed to make the wave.

This week we're looking at the first key maneuver for level 3 surfers. We address the great divide between those surfers who go up and over broken sections of a wave and those that run around the bottom. Get this right and you'll be surfing faster and making it to the end of a lot more waves. Hope you enjoy it, thanks for watching...

I must say these are the best instructional video's I've found until now: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ecGYKLq ... tu&index=5

[oldmansurfer]

The instructional about floaters ignores the surfer who generates speed while going around sections. Interesting that he would say the floater and foam climb be a begginer move. I would say they should learn to speed turn first. Oh well that is all probably just as well since those are really good moves to know. I generally like those videos too.