How does pumping generate speed?

[picardward]

Hi all, first post!

So just a quick question because I couldn't find it on the internet.

Can anyone break down how pumping generates speed? The question came about after purchasing a surfskate which is yet to arrive, I don't often pump whilst in the water and even then I only do it because I see other folks doing it. Most of the time I'm too busy concentrating on other things while up on the wave, but I don't take to pumping because I genuinely don't understand it and a couple of friends are in the same boat... don't even get me started on Foil surfing.

So can anyone break it down for us? Even use the dark art of 'science' if you have to, to explain how pumping works.

Cheers guys, stay safe.

[oldmansurfer]

Well skateboarding you are falling to one side and then quickly bring the board back under you which generates speed. So it's gravity that does it on a skateboard. It's gravity on a surfboard however it requires vertical pumping. So gravity speeds your board down the wave and then you need to sort of jump or unweight back to the top so your legs are required to add energy to get back up the wave. Gravity back and leg pressure down (weighting) into the board using you legs to get your center of gravity back up again. On a fast wave if you keep at it you can keep going faster and faster till you pass the wave by or the wave passes you by. You do lean in the direction you want to go so that when you shift your center of gravity in that direction your upper body is already there. A simpler description is to just move your legs up (unweighting) and push them back down (weighting) keeping your center of gravity as close to the center of the movement as possible and lean forward (down the line) the entire time. This would be on a steep wall so your board is going up and down instead of side to side. The reason it generates speed is the momentum is preserved.

[waikikikichan]

The problem with "pumping" is that it's a misnomer. Most beginners don't pump the board but end up bouncing their body up and down.

So can anyone break it down for us? Even use the dark art of 'science' if you have to, to explain how pumping works.

Resist / Relax / Repeat. Displace water to the side then displace water to the other side in a Rhythmic Motion. If you don't got the rhythm down, you'll go nowhere ( and look funny doing it ) .

[oldmansurfer]

The side to side tacking works in skateboarding but not in surfing because the board will sink into the water if it isn't going fast enough. Once you have some speed the side to side tacking may be helpful surfing (not enough to maintain speed or people would tack back out the the lineup instead of paddling back out) but obviously it doesn't work from a dead stop because your board sinks into the water. So it's up and down motion that speeds the board. If you just turn up the wave without unweighting the friction from the water slows the board down and you are fighting gravity back to the top of the wave so you may loose all the speed you gained dropping down. Turning the board creates friction and slows it down without center of gravity changes your body makes (but some of the friction is stored in the fins during a turn.) The idea with speed turns are to preserve the forward motion as much as possible so it's quick turns that are something like the flukes of a whale or dolphin to propel the board but with part of the board out of the water but similar to skateboarding it is off balance turns so while speed turning you are falling forward or down the line while tacking up and down the wave and because you have to go up the wave it requires lifting your legs up the wave to keep from slowing the board due to friction and overcoming gravity. It's all pretty complex but then most skateboarders don't understand tacking or turning to create speed either. Obviously understanding the physics of surfing isn't required to be able to surf

[picardward]

Thanks for the awesome replies guys! Informative and some good takeaways to go surfing with, appreciate the time spent to respond as well. It does feel like one of those things that generally it'd be easier to understand once we've gotten somewhere with it, but naturally just resisted to doing so.

Cheers, stay safe!

[waikikikichan]

It does feel like one of those things that generally it'd be easier to understand once we've gotten somewhere with it, but naturally just resisted to doing so.

I always recommend to go back 2 steps if you have a problem. So to help you with "Pumping", why do you need to "Pump" ? What do you hope "pumping" will accomplish for your current level of surfing ?

Question: How is your TRIM ?

[Gordman]

Resist / Relax / Repeat

[picardward]

It does feel like one of those things that generally it'd be easier to understand once we've gotten somewhere with it, but naturally just resisted to doing so.

I always recommend to go back 2 steps if you have a problem. So to help you with "Pumping", why do you need to "Pump" ? What do you hope "pumping" will accomplish for your current level of surfing ?

Question: How is your TRIM ?

Hey sorry for the delayed reply.

So It was more just of a curiosity, I've been surfing now for 3 years but only 'seriously' the last 9-12 months, and it's one of those things I see people doing but never really opted to do it myself. Like any newbie I'm keen to try out new things, in my head I assumed pumping was one of those that you do to help generate speed on a wave, but I didn't even understand the logic of it!

What will it accomplish? It's an unknown of an unknown at this moment! Hence the original question!

After a couple of weeks on a surfskate it makes a little more sense now.

Random question sorry.
Can I message you privately regarding a board purchase? I've seen a few replies of yours on other posts and I really need someone with a level head

[jaffa1949]

Just thought I chip in here, I encourage you to ask your board selection question on the open forum because there are a lot or members who can benefit by the information. It is also ok to ask via PM .
To help offer selections for you to consider.
What are you riding at the moment.
What are your skill levels?
What sort of surfing do you aspire to?
What sort of waves are you currently riding?
What is your age weight and height?

Non of these points are judgmental we all go through varied stages of capability and learning needs, we advise people with genuine disabilities and other challenges.
You are welcome to share as you wish
Cheers Jaffa

[picardward]

Just thought I chip in here, I encourage you to ask your board selection question on the open forum because there are a lot or members who can benefit by the information. It is also ok to ask via PM .
To help offer selections for you to consider.
What are you riding at the moment.
What are your skill levels?
What sort of surfing do you aspire to?
What sort of waves are you currently riding?
What is your age weight and height?

Non of these points are judgmental we all go through varied stages of capability and learning needs, we advise people with genuine disabilities and other challenges.
You are welcome to share as you wish
Cheers Jaffa

Hi Jaffa, thanks for the info bud, I’ll make a dedicated post based off the above, feel like I’m absolutely pestering folk

I did that age old thing of stepping down too much too early, so need some words of wisdom.

Thanks again

[oldmansurfer]

You're not pestering anyone as far as I know. This is not one of those questions that people ask often and it is an interesting question. I used to be able to generate insane speed on a surfboard but that was on fast moving freight train waves that needed it. On slower waves it is slightly different in that you do go rail to rail however instead of doing speed turns on a slow wave you might be able to do a variety of other maneuvers that don't loose speed. Things that slow you down is getting into the flats at the bottom of the wave or turning with your weight over your back foot too much so on a shorter board it's mostly about pressure differential between front and back foot although you can move your feet forward a little to get more speed. Strong rear foot pressure is a stall so turns with strong rear foot pressure require recovery from the slowing down so usually you would do them on a steep face so you have the help of gravity to gain back speed. You need steeper or bigger waves with a shortboard as it doesn't glide or generate lift as much as a longer board.

[jaffa1949]

[quote="picardward Hi Jaffa, thanks for the info bud, I’ll make a dedicated post based off the above, feel like I’m absolutely pestering folk

I did that age old thing of stepping down too much too early, so need some words of wisdom.

Thanks again[/quote]

Hi Picardward, an much of the forums intent is to answer legitimate questions and provide levelheaded advice, there is quite a bit of worthwhile experience , often people come to, ask why boards they have bought because of advertising or pushy sales people sold them don‘t work.
We try to tailor realistic boards for the level and all else of the surfer! Those are not pester subjects.
Pesterers are trolls , pushy sales people ( you might notice advertising urls are deleted when they are only that) , inappropriate subjects and a lot of background stuff doesn‘t make it on for long or can edited, sometimes because some of the posts are almost like Nigerian money scams complete with witchdoctors they are altered enough not to link out and stay for a laugh!
ALL GENUINE SURF QUERIES ARE NOT PESTERING1
Ask away

[picardward]

You're not pestering anyone as far as I know. This is not one of those questions that people ask often and it is an interesting question. I used to be able to generate insane speed on a surfboard but that was on fast moving freight train waves that needed it. On slower waves it is slightly different in that you do go rail to rail however instead of doing speed turns on a slow wave you might be able to do a variety of other maneuvers that don't loose speed. Things that slow you down is getting into the flats at the bottom of the wave or turning with your weight over your back foot too much so on a shorter board it's mostly about pressure differential between front and back foot although you can move your feet forward a little to get more speed. Strong rear foot pressure is a stall so turns with strong rear foot pressure require recovery from the slowing down so usually you would do them on a steep face so you have the help of gravity to gain back speed. You need steeper or bigger waves with a shortboard as it doesn't glide or generate lift as much as a longer board.

That makes sense, so basically the pumping action is done with the backfoot but can actually negate speed if not done properly? Does it feed into the expression that your 'back knee is the gas pedal' at all?

It's odd, the surfskate feels a lot more like you're generating from rhythm of movement all the way from your shoulders to your feed, what I struggle to visualise is how it translates into surfing if that makes sense?

[picardward]

[quote="picardward Hi Jaffa, thanks for the info bud, I’ll make a dedicated post based off the above, feel like I’m absolutely pestering folk

I did that age old thing of stepping down too much too early, so need some words of wisdom.

Thanks again

Hi Picardward, an much of the forums intent is to answer legitimate questions and provide levelheaded advice, there is quite a bit of worthwhile experience , often people come to, ask why boards they have bought because of advertising or pushy sales people sold them don‘t work.
We try to tailor realistic boards for the level and all else of the surfer! Those are not pester subjects.
Pesterers are trolls , pushy sales people ( you might notice advertising urls are deleted when they are only that) , inappropriate subjects and a lot of background stuff doesn‘t make it on for long or can edited, sometimes because some of the posts are almost like Nigerian money scams complete with witchdoctors they are altered enough not to link out and stay for a laugh!
ALL GENUINE SURF QUERIES ARE NOT PESTERING1
Ask away [/quote]

Hi Jaffa,

I see what you're saying, thankfully I've never really encountered any pushy salesmen, but I'm yet to find someone who will firmly tell me 'this board is too ... for you', I guess this is why the question is asked so much because each time you get it wrong you're left with a pretty expensive ornament.

And that sounds hilarious honestly, might poke around see if I can find one or two

I've dropped a topic into surf hardware, feel free to rinse my board choices

Cheers.

[kestius]

Hello, the key thing in pumping is compression-decompression doing turns I think. Check this video, please, where I explain how does it work:

[Naeco78]

Pumping has changed somewhat from when I surfed back in the 90's. Most boards didn't have concaves that I can remember back then.. so you had to actually tick tack up and down the face of the wave.. basically pushing water off the rail to propel you faster up and down the face.. while using the vertical part of the face as a ramp along the way.

Nowadays it seems like the boards are able to pump with somewhat of a hoping motion that forces waver into the concave bottom contours of the board and then propels it forward somewhat as the water is squezed out of the double concave in the tail. Well thats the way I understand it anyway.. We used to use that method somewhat in the 90's also.. but it was more about pushing the board down into the fat part of the wave.. to get it closer to the power source and also hopefully get closer to forcing the board down the face of the wave again, if it was mushing out. It didnt work as well as it seems to nowadays.. because of the newer single to double concaves designs.

So there are couple different ways of pumping that are used interchangeably.. but I think some of the confusion comes from the way shortboarders pump and trim at the same time.. in small or weak waves.

Hard to describe without visuals.. but hopefully this helps