volume in rails? Faster / slower?

[benjl]

Hey guys

Please help shed some light on this topic as i'm a bit confused from various things i've read

From what i've read- boxy (full) rails help give the board additional volume for easy getting on to waves but the downside is that the rails don't turn or cut in to the wave as easily as thinner performance rails. The fuller rail slows the board down slightly and means it's not as quick for slicing through turns or around the wave. They're also more orientated for easy paddling and beginners?

However I read a spec by a shaper on a high-rockered performance board that said this "the extra volume in boxy rail help to make the board fast through turns. The volume is like having a spring when changing from rail to rail".

Is this accurate?? I thought boxy / full rails on a performance board would've been a bit counter-productive?

Cheers!

[oldmansurfer]

I think when you are pushing the limits on high performance surfing lots of things make a difference including an inch in length and thickness of the board. I am not sure what thick rails means. In my imagination it would seem that rail shape was of ultimate importance but thickness? I can't see that would matter unless you are up there among the best surfers in the world........Of course I could be wrong. If you look at the old longboards they have round rails and this caused them to behave differently..... made them a little slower and not able to stick to a steep wall and probably affected how they turned (made it easier). A board can be thick but have thin rails that work the same as a thinner board. You can add the thickness away from the rail and taper the rail up to the thicker portion. So whatever loss of volume in the rails can be added to the center portion of the board. Just spouting off stuff from the top of my head

[KoolCook]

I am not sure what the answer is, but I can only speak from experience.

I own a 8'6" with thinner rails and also a 9'6" with thick round rails. The former absolutely slices the waves much much better...but it also has more curvature in its rocker and is lighter...so...(shrugs)....

[drowningbitbybit]

A fuller volume rail on a shortboard will turn slower, but the extra volume will give you some extra drive so (depending on how you surf) you can get round this.
Also, the extra volume in the rail can help you set the rail into the face of the wave earlier, at least on a fairly fat wave anyway - not so true on a steep wave when the fat rail will be forced out the face.

The shape is more of a factor and you can get hard-but-boxy rails, which is what you tend to find in fatboy shortboards.

A middle-of-the-road rail is suitable for most surfers, except for small wave stuff when that boxy rail is definitely an advantage.

[jaffa1949]

Here are a few shapers thoughts on rails; Bob Mctavish on the full hydrodynamics of boards as the rails are as important as fins in surfboard function. Also how bottom contours relate to both fin and rail.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sA9kR7JnTvo#t=126 Bob McTavish.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6eSqc0T5QNs Geoff McCoy

From Baron Surfboards
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jGFe5ec3Ec

Now to go to extremes where it isall about the rails and bottom contours
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kEqWmSjPTbY Roger Hall and the modern hot curl

[oldmansurfer]

Cool videos Jaffa thanks

[drowningbitbybit]

Here are a few shapers thoughts on rails

It's good when you watch people who know what they're talking about and you realise you know one-tenth of a tiny bit of bugger all

[benjl]

It just boggles my mind how complex a surfboard really is and its fascinating watching all this stuff!

It might actually explain the 'speed issues' I had with my new 6'0 board (Mc Coy's video)! One thing I had noticed with my new board is that it has very thin rails but also surprisingly round, soft and curved rails compared with the Anderson.
That would explain why it is noticebaly more stable but also slower, in conjunction with a pin tail and slightly less volume overall.
Perhaps I need to stand further back on the board and really try to engage the small area of hard rails on the tail of the board for speed and lose-ness.

[oldmansurfer]

Here are a few shapers thoughts on rails

It's good when you watch people who know what they're talking about and you realise you know one-tenth of a tiny bit of bugger all

I know I don't know squat just that I have theories and not afraid to blurt them out. I think we all have ideas about things and while there will be some things all shapers agree on I bet they don't agree on everything. But it goes to show that getting to know a good shaper and having them custom make boards for you is probably your best bet.

[dtc]

Old man, for sure. For example, geoff McCoy is certainly quite controversial in many ways, just look at the hooha over the McCoy nugget design. But he is very respected.

[oldmansurfer]

There is so much that goes into how a board performs. Besides the design it depends on the waves and the surfer. Even without considering the waves and the surfer there isn't any exact science of surfboards because there are so many variables and it hasn't been all worked out yet.