Got injured, board damaged by another surfer?! Speak out!

[Douglas]

Camping on the inside, hoping for leftovers, someone finally bongles a trick and lets the wave go. "OK, this one's mine!". He turns late, fixated on the wave, looking over his shoulder, not paying attention to the line of surfers in front of him. Before he knows it, he's paddled over someone unable to get out of his way.

It's a common accident, with little to no consensus on who's at fault.

Surfline's article on etiquette entitled 'Bill of Lefts and Rights' http://www.surfline.com/surfology/bill-of-lefts-and-rights/index.cfm?id=51337, says ""Always do your best to make good on any damage caused by your surfboard to someone else's board by arranging for a repair job or in some other manner agreeable to both of you."

Surfline also says "When paddling out to or within a break, it's your responsibility to stay out of the way of riders on waves." http://www.surfline.com/surfology/bill-of-lefts-and-rights/index.cfm?id=51321

Who's responsible after surfers collide?

Jimmy Huser from Park City, Utah adamantly believes, get out of his way, or he’s gonna run you over. He’s the surfer described above, but there are millions of surfers just like him.

Our exchange is as follows:
Me: "Hey, you ran me over, your fin gashed my board"
Jimmy: "Man, this really ruins my day"
Me: "Yeah, not such a great day for me either, so... how do you want to settle up?"
Jimmy: "What, you were in my way!"
Me: "Bad karma dude. There were 3 of us on the inside paddling out. You turned and paddled late, there was nothing any of us could do but shout & paddle for dear life. It's not a big wave where you're stuck between running someone over and getting crushed in the impact zone. It’s not like you were on a line with a trajectory any of us could predict."
Jimmy: "Well, I couldn't see. My hat was blocking my view"
Me: "You should've pulled out when you heard us yelling"
Jimmy: "I would've popped my shoulder out"
Me: "You shouldn't be out here if you can't control your equipment. You're endangering everyone else, that ain't cool man"
Jimmy: "I’m not from around here, I’m from Utah. How much are repairs usually?"
Me: "$40 for a small ding, I'm guessing this long fin scar across my Merrick logo (brand new weirdo ripper) will be upwards of $60"
Jimmy: "Hitler lived a long life. I don't believe in karma"
Me: "You're in the wrong sport if you don't believe in karma"
Jimmy: "I don't have any money on me"
Me: "What's your email? You can paypal me"
Jimmy: "I'll pay for half, up to $30"
Me: "Suggested donation is the full amount, but it is optional & I'll take what I can get"

There's an email exchange with him arguing that he was up on the wave & not paddling prone, & that I should have paddled out of his way, ultimately weaseling out. He was totally on his belly, that’s why his hat blocked his view, that’s why he thought “oh crap, either i pull back & pop my shoulder, or run these guys over”.

Accidents like this are common enough that there should be a clear understanding of who’s responsible, like when one car rear-ends another car, it's almost always the car’s doing the rear-ending fault.

What do you think?

Inspired by ‘Burned’ http://www.surfermag.com/features/burned/ written by associate editor of Surfer Magazine Todd Prodanovich, this topic hopes to inspire you to tell your story. Let's end the debate, hold people accountable, stop the shenanigans, and make surfing better for everyone.

Tell your story

Clean lines & warm waters to you
Douglas

[oldmansurfer]

From my own perspective I would never ask another surfer to fix my board. I also think ultimately it is the surfer in the way who is responsible as long as there was no way for the surfer on the wave to avoid running over the other surfer. Hey but I never surf big crowds so take my opinion with a few grains of salt and a shot of tequila

[jaffa1949]

Let's deconstruct this a bit, Jimmy from Utah unlikely surfer? But I'll cut to the chase.

EVERYBODY has a certain duty of care in their awareness of others in the surf.
A RIDER cannot always see or avoid a collision and if they can they usually do!
PEOPLE PADDLING OUT or SITTING INSIDE for the smaller waves need to be aware of the way the break is working paddling out paddle very wide to avoid traffic or if sitting inside being prepared to take a whiter water hit away from the pocket where the guy is surfing, not making a panicked paddle for the shoulder.
The biggest break down in a surf spot's attitude is self entitlement and plain lack of manners of some participants causing the vibe to degenerate into dog eat dog.
If you have been wronged say so , if you do wrong apologise.

Don't go out in breaks where you can't handle the conditions or the crowd.
Be realistic about your own abilities.
Don't expect a spot in a line up you have to earn it by being aware ( not anything else)
Don't offer to pay for a repair or stuff like that, it is a consensual risk we all take and even old hands can get wrong.
Ask yourself where are you in the food chain
That is a genuine question for you, how experienced are you in the water/
For instance I have surfed Pipeline years ago, now I wouldn't even enter the water there.
At my local and other spots I can be near the top, but I still take my turn.

Come back to my first thought, AWARENESS of the others around you.
How do I deal with it
read down this page for my post of April 18
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=4876&start=1480

[drowningbitbybit]

Accidents like this are common enough that there should be a clear understanding of who’s responsible, like when one car rear-ends another car, it's almost always the car’s doing the rear-ending fault.

Extraordinarily bad example as it's almost always the surfer sitting on the inside's fault

[jaffa1949]

There is a pretty clear rule of thumb, stay out of the way if you are paddling out or sitting in the line up!
Has always been that , sort of like jumping in front of a speeding semi trailer!

[dtc]

There is a pretty clear rule of thumb, stay out of the way if you are paddling out or sitting in the line up!
Has always been that , sort of like jumping in front of a speeding semi trailer!

My pet hate is paddling back out and there is a surfer sitting there waiting in the line up. So I paddle more toward the shoulder, so when the surfer takes off s/he is surfing the other way (away from me - I'm between the curl and the surfer). Then the surfer decides to paddle into the wave by paddling toward the shoulder and doing a cutback once on the wave, so paddles straight towards me just as the wave breaks, meaning my only option is to head further toward the breaking shoulder and being splattered as the wave breaks on my head.

Seems to be an issue for shortboarders from sydney - I reckon some of them are just so determined to snake everyone that they do it every wave, even if there is no competition...

Obviously I'm paddling out in the wrong spot to start with, but if you fall off early in the wave then you dont have much choice really.

My other pet hate is shortboarders, usually grommets, who sit 5m closer to the beach than I am, meaning as soon as I turn for a wave I have to basically paddle over their heads. Actually, bodyboarders are just as bad as are (in some beach spots) those swimmers who paddle out just behind the break and decide to relax and lay in the water.

While I'm complaining about things...

[oldmansurfer]

the first job a newbie surfer is to stay out of the way of the other surfers. Don't drop in on them and don't blockade the lineup.

[peazz]

Not going into it, but this is for on reason only. I think you all know what it is.

[threefour]

To be fair, if you are paddling back out you try and avoid other surfers but it can be hard! You're paddling for dear life then the dude makes an adjustment and comes right at you.

Honestly I think that the phrase 'sh*t happens' is fairly useful here, there are always going to be mistakes from both sides. Either the guy who runs into you is polite and reasonable, in which case you can discuss who was at fault and who pays for a repair, or he's a dick and one of those surfers, in which you case you get over it and deal with the fact that some people are tossers!

Everyone makes mistakes!

Rant over...

[jaffa1949]

Fair enough rant and pretty much true. Sh.t happens and boards get dinged hopefully less often people get injured. It's pretty hard to pursue for damages as often too both parties contributed to the event.
Worst scenario will be when land based councils lawyers and legislators start trying to "rule" surfing.
We need to be mindful of our own actions because soon or later if we don't, authorities will rule it for us.
If you commit a deliberate act that endangers someone and they are hurt, you are personally liable even now!

[benjl]

This has been really interesting to read from a newbies perspective- thanks for sharing.

I've encountered a few different situations recently which have been similar to the above but no equipment damage has been done and both parties have also mutually apologised and gotten on with surfing which was great.

However I did have one on a very small day on a beach north of Auckland. The waves were clean and quite wide so often there would be at least 2 different people riding it in various places.
A good wave was coming and after waiting a while in the line up as the long boarders got all the small waves early, both I and a long boarder were paddling for it about 20m or so apart. It looked like both of us would have plenty of space to do our own thing on the wave.
As I had just dropped down the face and gotten to my feet, I see the longboarder fast approaching me on his board and then rather than turn straight or away, kept coming at me so i had no where to go. We ended up side by side moments later and he swore and pushed me off my board as he rode past. Luckily no damage was done to my board but I wasn't happy about the encounter. He went straight back out there and continued to snake a lot of shortboarders waves.

In stark contrast- I surfed in Taranaki a few weeks later and the beach was abolsutely packed with much bigger waves.
Surprisingly this time I had surfers drop down on me several times on either side of the wave but yet they were good enough to just do their own turns and have all 3 of us enjoy the wave in a cramped space. No one got angry at each other and everyone just did their own thing. It seemed like this was just how it was down there when it was busy and everyone was just good enough to do whatever. It was pretty interesting to observe!

[oldmansurfer]

I hear about breaks where people share waves all the time or where dropping in or getting dropped in on is all a part of surfing those breaks. Take Pipeline for instance, pretty sure there aren't many party waves with lots of guys on them because it's too dangerous but I hear that surfers drop in on others according to a pecking order or who has earned the right to the waves mostly though it is one person on one wave. If you go to Hanalei it often has many sections that guys will drop in at those sections thinking the surfer on the wave can't make it through. I have also seen 2 guys, both incredible surfers riding together on the same waves but mostly it is one guy on one wave at Hanalei. Looking at other breaks on the internet there are lots of places where party waves are the rule. I guess it is different at different places but long ago it was one guy one wave. I think as the population changes so will the amount of breaks where party waves are the rule.

[drowningbitbybit]

A good wave was coming...both I and a long boarder were paddling for it ... plenty of space to do our own thing on the wave ...I see the longboarder fast approaching me on his board... i had no where to go.

And that's why we have the drop-in rule.
You just described the classic drop-in. Sorry, but you were totally in the wrong. I wouldn't push someone off but I would shout at someone to get off the wave.

I've surfed with a couple of relative newbies recently and something I've noticed is that, once they get to a certain stage (can catch an unbroken wave, starting to turn), they don't factor in the skill of the other surfer or the fact that he's flying along the line.
They seem to concentrate on their little bit of the wave and assume that's how much room anyone could need. "There's plenty of room for everyone" seems to be the standard mind-set.

That's fine if everyone is at exactly the same level as you, or you're mucking about in the whitewater, but once you're out in the line-up, you have to play by the rules...
No drop-ins.
Your responsibility to stay out the way.

[dtc]

I hear about breaks where people share waves all the time .

Check out these guys having fun sharing a wave (from about 30 second mark)

http://aso.gov.au/titles/documentaries/ ... ave/clip2/

I think Jaffa first put me onto this movie, those guys show what you can do with a longboard.

and DBB - nice subtle response. If a surfer can catch up to you on the wave, you have dropped in on that surfer.

[benjl]

Thanks for the info. I've also had the vice versa where I've played extra courteous and gave way to an old guy to take the wave and then watched him decide to just pull out of it and let it oll on by.
I had been waiting nearly 20minutes in the spot with basically not a single wave (well before he arrived to the beach) and had already started paddling for the wave and lining it up when he decided to start paddling literally right next to me- was f**king bizarre!
It looked like it would've been a disaster if we both went for it and got up so I gave him the right of way as he was probably in his 50/60's. It was the wave of the day and got basically nothing after that.
Very frustrating to say the least.

Other times i've played by the rules and let other people go for the waves only to watch them not paddle enough and let it roll by or continually wipe out. Then they do the same thing again on the next one while i'm still waiting and could've got it.
Definitely seen days where you play by the rules and just get shafted on every wave by people who just try and go for everything and don't let others have it.

I saw a big wave today that came in and about 5 different guys were all paddling within about 2m of each other to make it. About 3 of them got up next to each other.

[dtc]

Its easy to make mistakes in a crowded line up. If you hang back out of the way of everyone else, then you never get a wave. But you dont feel up to paddling into a group of better surfers who are more aggressive. Obviously the best bet is a different break, but thats not always feasible.

If you are down from the shoulder a bit and think people close to the curl are pulling out all the time, you can start paddling just in case but be prepared to pull out immediately if someone does catch the wave and also make it 'clear' (if you can) that you can see the other guy paddling into the wave (eg look at him/her). You dont want them to get upset at you if they think you are going to drop in. This is easier with a short board though, because you can get up to speed and take a later drop - with a longboard you sort of need a bit of a run up.

And sometimes people just take advantage of less aggressive surfers and paddle right by them. There is an older guy where I surf who paddles for every wave and ignores every else completely. He is a good surfer and often the other surfers are tourists or holiday surfers, so he probably just feels he can ignore them. Its actually the total beginners that give him grief (they get in everyone's way because they dont know what they are doing) - people who know the rules try to be polite or follow the rules, and he takes advantage of them all the time. Not that localism is very prevelant where I surf; I'm sure there are places where far worse things happen.

The more confident you are with your surfing ability, the more confident you are to go to the right spot and to take the wave when its yours. Just takes time

[oldmansurfer]

There is an older guy where I surf who paddles for every wave and ignores every else completely

I didn't know you went surfing at my spot Just kidding I aim my board right for them so you couldn't say I ignore them. Well I am sure there are a lot of guys who get upset by newbies. Seriously I do get upset but just find a less crowded peak which is easy where I surf. The break I am usually at has multiple peaks and there are multiple other breaks within paddling distance so it's usually not so difficult for me to find a wave that no one else is in position for.

[benjl]

At least if push came to shove I'm training to be a competitve kickboxer so would probably do alright haha

Not that that is the point though, learning the rules and being courteous is the aim But the training does help a lot with surfing ie. all the core, back, shoulder, bare-feet balance and push up exercises.
If anyone is interested in a new sport it does have quite a few cross-overs with benefits in to surfing.

[oldmansurfer]

I trained in Karate and it gave me the confidence to walk away (or surf away) from violent confrontation. I really didn't need any cross training since I did a lot of stuff that was probably good cross training for surfing anyway

[dtc]

If you can do some shadow kick boxing while surfing, I'll let you drop in once or twice