you wont beleive what theyre doing to my home break

[just_surf_it]

this is the case at many beaches, but here in nz at my small break where occasionally theres awesome surf; these old people that live around the area have made a petition saying that they dont want people driving on the beach because its a native part of newzeland (which is bullcrap) its just a shitty beach with sticks all over the place and dirty as water. we drive on the beach for the surf some dorks rip the beach up with their cars, but where doesnt that happen and its the only beach were allowed to drive on round here. im thinking i should make my own petition and get all the surfers round here to sign it and i know theyd be keen. it said in my local paper that we should get the chance to have our say and i think i might just do it. what do you guys think?

[Brent]

I agree with the old people and see their point perfectly.
Being a fellow New Zealander who lives in the most populace beach-town in the country I am qualified to comment -I live at Mount Maunganui Beach, 40 feet from the high-tide line at Arataki. I see this xxxxx every weekend.
I also happen to work for the City Council and have an insight to what really happens on our beaches, our Council has a regular budget to finance cleanups and vandalism repairs...care of the ratepayers.

1) Most young people who drive on beaches do so for one reason, hooning. They drive on a beach because it is a soft slippery surface and they want to do 360's and donuts. OR they want to get to an obscure place to light a bonfire & drink piss and leave their xxxxx everywhere (see comment on this below). Don't give me the yarn about needing to accessing hard-to-reach surfbreaks in your area...there are none.

2) Driving on a beach is dangerous. You only have to count the number of serious accidents at 90 mile beach in Northland with inexperienced people & tourists in 4x4 vehicles. These people get themselves bogged at high speeds roaring into soft sand, they roll & flip their vehicles or trash them into the salt water.

3) When these inexperienced people have accidents, when drunk teenagers get their cars stuck below the high-tide line and need a tow-out...who do you think gets woken up at 2am with them begging for towropes and your assistance to get them out before the tide comes in...that's right the poor old people who live nearby. Or if its really serious, they want to use your phone to call an ambulance & the Police.

4) They leave all their mess behind when they manage to get their cars on the beach.... instead of leaving it at rubbish bins in the public carparks where everybody else does...they leave it miles from anywhere at the other end of the beach; who kindly picks up the cigarette packets, the broken chick-piss bottles in the sand-dunes, the used condoms, the beer carton boxes.....that's right, the nice old people who walk along these beaches.

These old people aren't spoil-sports, they were young once too. Have you ever stopped and thought about the reason why they are getting a petition going??? Perhaps they're just sick & tired of all the things mentioned above? If your generation are going to continue to have rights...without responsibilities, what do you think the logical outcome is....yes that's right, more silly Council Bylaws banning vehicles on beaches....just like now our country is being overun with liquor-free areas, banned drinking in public places, car-free zones at night (yes we have those here now thanks to your generation's behaviour and our new 18yr age limit for liquor)

Feel free to reply, come up with some logical arguments why you should be allowed to trash, litter, noise-pollute with your screaming engines at night as you do your donuts, light illegal fires trashing the sandunes & whatever our communal public land.

I await your response...

[libby]

As an ecologist all i can say is Amen Brent

[Broosta]

our new 18yr age limit for liquor)

So what did the limit used to be?

[Brent]

In 2001 our liberal Labour government reduced the minimum legal age for purchasing liquor, entry into pubs, nightclubs etc from 20 to 18.
Their logic was; people who are 18 are getting in anyway...especially young women who can "skank-up' to look alot older. The then law was an ass for the police who could not control things. The answer...relax the law, it was hotly contested at the time..but it got through.

This is in a country that already has the higest rate of teenage pregnancy in the developed world, one of the highest rates of teenagers with STD's (and it's climbing up even higher)...and a high rate of sexual assults on teenage women. Now I'm no crony...but man, that's not thinking is it?

Just last night I's out clubbing (yep still go-hard Libby) and man, wandering along the Strand at 5am heading home they're there for the picking...all these drunk young school-age girls by themselves trying to get a ride home, throwing up in the gutter, with equally drunk young guys pestering them....it's a date-rapers paradise. Not to mention dream come true for sleezy older guys who like that sort of thing....it's a drama for the whole community who pays the price for cleanup/down-stream effects.

What about when pubs close...that's when the real fun starts for us who live at the beach...they all pile over here in cars, doing donuts in the gravel carparks, throwing broken bottles everywhere, leaving their mess & xxxxx everywhere.

If you combine the above with the longer term effect of our liberal political environment where everybody has "rights" but bugger-all "responsibilities" we now have a whole generation of young people who've grown up with no sense of collective responsibility for their actions or their behaviour.. and the original poster winging about not having the right to hoon on a wild, unspoiled, driftwood laden, NZ west-coast beach for much longer is a typical example....

[Broosta]

Ah I see.
I don't think that sort of behaviour is limited to NZ mate its pretty prevelent here in uk too.
We are soon going to have the current pub/club closing times erm removed resulting in 24/7 legal drinking!
Some think this will be a disaster as the police are already inundated with drink related trouble at chucking out times.
While others think this will spread this type of behaviour out so it won't all happen at once when venues close, also they think it will reduce the numbers of binge drinkers as folks won't have to chuck a few more down their necks before the bar shuts.
Personally I don't know but will be intersted to see what does happen when we become europeanised!
Can we brits actually handle european liberation - we'll see.
However since canibis was down graded from a category b drug to cat c (almost in an Amsterdam stylee!), we haven't become a nation of stoners so maybe it could work.

[Phil]

yeah its like that every were brent dont think its just limited to NZ

i think 24/7 pubs is the way to go ever been to torquay in devon at closing time your likely to get bottled leaving the pubs if people leave when they want i dont think you will get nearly as much fights and agrovation

[just_surf_it]

whoa, i think you need to chill out a tad brent. to be honest you dont live here, and there arent dorks who hoon all the time round here that often- yeah i hate the fags that rip the beach up, and theres nothing i can do about it. but implying that everyone does it and that i have no argument on such a matter is just stupid. no your right, there are no hard to access beaches round here, but there are also none to drive on and drive up to another point which is not accsessable from the road. so- in saying that, my comment is that having somewhere (just one place) to drive on and drive up the beach is really helpful to my fellow surfers. i am a strong believer in keeping our environment "clean and green" but i do have an argument for surfers here. i also can put up with the hassle of walking 1mile or so up the beach and walking back after about 2 hourse or more surf. on the other hand.. i could fight. for someone who likes a bit of nature and scenic walks, i can say that many many many young and old people around here, like to drive on the beach and up and around beaches because its different, and you can drive for ages. i bet if i got a petition together the council will see justice at my point. im not wanting this to go through so i can drive my cvar on the beach and rip up the sand and xxxxx. i want it so somewhere in nz we have a place to drive on the beach and drive to good surf; where people like me who dont have the sort of money to drive a thousand miles to a mad break; can surf. and surf good. i dont want to get into an argument- im a women and im angry so think about it.

[babyboarder89]

However since canibis was down graded from a category b drug to cat c (almost in an Amsterdam stylee!), we haven't become a nation of stoners so maybe it could work.

youve not been to my school.

[libby]

Or my uni

the guys in the halls of residence i lived in last year had a happy reclassification day party and turned my entire corridor into a hot house!

[Broosta]

OK I stand corrected .
Let me re-phraze that to, '...stylee!), we haven't entirely become a nation of stoners in that there still remain a few stubborn pockets of resistance which are relatively green free so maybe it could work.'

[Brent]

OK Just-surf-it, perhaps I ranted abit...sorry.
The thing is, you may be a responsible person, you may want to access an area (I think I know specifically where you're talking about)...but an open access is not a good censor of behaviour at any beach because the lowest common denominator will rule. You may have 99 people use it respectfully...but the one who doesn't will be the one they remember...

Sometimes our Council staff struggle with this..."do we fence off this area to protect it. if we do however, we're restricting access to legitimate users"
There is no easy answer, the climate in this country at the mo is fence off anything to do with beaches. The foreshore issue has raised hackles everywhere...especially with do-gooding retired people with time on their hands...

[Brent]

Actually, Just Surf It, putting my work hat on for a mo...don't fight it, ignore it and it'll go away. Seriously...here's why.

Council staff in NZ hate old retired people. Reason - they complain alot, they have too much time on their hands to write letters and ring politicians they "waste" alot of peoples time by wanting written responses to things a simple phone call would sort. They tie up alot of resources with petty issues like complaining about the colour of doors on public toilets, dogs shitting in parks...stuff like that.

I earnestly suggest if your surfer buddies do nothing the old people will more likely look like a bunch of silver-top complainers. As it will be them & them alone ranting...
BUT, if you respond & "fight" as you put it, the Kapiti Council will pay closer attention to the whole issue, it will become politicised, your local community newspapers will get involved etc raising the temperature of the whole debate...see my point?

[just_surf_it]

yeah i completly see your point, and i think ignoring it may help the issue just pass or become not so open opintionated by the old people who have nothing better to do. i wont argue with what your trying to say because your very right with all of your comments above. ive thought alot about the issue and decided it would only get worse if i did make it a bigger issue than it currently is. nothing can be done about the childish people who ruin the beaches, and i guess keeping them off the beach being idiots in the long run will help the beach and its surf conditions. its in bad enough shape as it is, so thanks. i wont raise any more issues that have already been raised. but in saying that, please dont say that all young people are like this, because were not. generation after generation have been bad influeneces but this generation just dont care. there will always be people like I who do care what goes on around them. But youth will be youth. catchya

[d3ad1y]

Might just be me, but i think driving on beaches is perfectly fine if controlled properly.

Take Fraser Island for example, you can drive 4wDs all the way around the eastern side of the island but you need to abide by certain rules that protect the ecosytem such as only driving on hard/wet sand, no driving into the salt water, and no driving on the dunes, etc.

Now fraser island is one of the most delicate ecosystems in australia as the island is home to a very diverse ecosystem, and the entire island is sand, and if they can protect the environment and allow 4wds with small sacrifices on the drivers part (no hollering about in juiced-up party-wagons pulling donuts etc) then it should be easy for the council and local community to make a deal with drivers on a residential or rural beach. (is it possible to have a rural beach? i dunno... ill use the term anyway)