Who's wave is this?

[Big H]

This was posted on the local Facebook buy and sell page last week......the range of answers/opinions was remarkable. I wanted to present it here for discussion.

The setting is a local break, Batu Bolong in Canggu on a small day. Lots of learners on the fat waves when it's small there and very crowded; can be up to 100 people out there when the conditions are as pictured....rare to impossible to get a wave that you are alone on when it is that size.....apparently the more aggressive guy is a regular that many people recognised when this was posted and it is normal behaviour for him.

Who is right and who is wrong here?

[dtc]

Guess it depends on whether you follow the first up rule or the closest to the peak rule. Even with the latter there was no need to actually go that far across the face - he was way out of the pocket when he pushed the guy

Also, to be so aggressive on a wave like that is pathetic

[Big H]

Also, to be so aggressive on a wave like that is pathetic

That bit was unanimous on the other site......other words to describe him were used though....

[waikikikichan]

In Waikiki at Queen's break, the same thing would've happened. The black rider was a fraction faster getting up, BUT...... he was way off the peak and Shoulder Hopping. Plus he's a newbie regular footer finding himself on the left side of the wave, not doing anything and basically slowing down going straight. If he had done a turn and trim, he could've "established" his priority on the wave. Wearing gloves makes you stand out too (in a bad way).

Think about this though...... what about the girl who gets on even further/latter on the wave. Is the local guy gonna push her down too ? ( don't have to worry about the 2 others that missed, they were on shorter boards )

We don't know the full story. The black rider could've drop in on the local one too many times before, and he got notice served. Better a push down than a board to the head or a punch to the face.

[Big H]

To give an idea of what that break looks like on different sized swells and what kind of surfers usually ride it.....

Last pic is of Batu Bolong on a smaller day.....must be the first wave of the set because I do not exaggerate, EVERYONE will paddle for the first wave....if they get it they take it then carnage ensues......

Other pics are taken by me after a sesh on a bigger day....walls up really well on bigger swells and is heaps of fun.....note the distinct lack of crowds.

[dtc]

Looking at that last pic, if you chose to surf there in those conditions with that many people then you just have to accept that the normal etiquette rules just aren't going to apply. Its like if a surf school comes along (or you paddle out into a surf school) - that's just the luck of the draw, its not going to be your day if you insist on strict priority.

But assuming the video wasnt on a particularly crowded day, I tend to agree with waikikichan. The guy with the black was way out of position, he just has to suck it up if someone picks up the wave on the inside and get out of the way. That said, a relaxed surfer on the inside could easily have either just decided not to take the wave (the other guy was already up for a few seconds) or surfed it differently; this guy created the issue for no reason that can be seen from the video (it looks like he intentionally accelerated toward the other surfer rather than, for example, assuming the other surfer was going to go left and ending up in the wrong spot by mistake). Although it could have been ongoing frustration as mentioned. Or maybe they knew each other?

[Tudeo]

I faced the crowds there and surfed Oldmans this morning, that's the wave just next Batu Bolong and had the best surf in months, it was head high on the sets. But I had to escape a couple of nasty drop-in attacks of (hopefully) out of control surfergirls. I say hopefully cos if u drop in on someone like that intentionally there is something seriously wrong with you.
I was in a relaxed mindset because I anticipated all this drop-in and paddle in the way $#!t, and went in with very low expectancies, just to do some paddling.
I was riding a high line on a right when a girl on a 7'6" funboard was paddling on the shoulder in front of me. I called out to her and wanted to put all my attention to the wave again, when to my surprise I saw her drop in. The nose of her board missed my ankles by centimeters. But I was in a relaxed and alert shape, ready to catch the board with my hands and simply push it away, but luckily it wasn't needed.
A bit later I took a perfectly shaped setwave to the left on the right peak and could make it easy around the left peak. Often u get stuck between the two peaks this way. But when I made it around the left peak there was another girl dropping in. This was a more forgiving drop-in because I think most people don't expect someone already on the wave making it around.
Also this time I was alert and relaxed and saw everything happening being in control and called out to her. Still she surprised me to turn to her right and straight down the wave, i would have expected her to turn to her left and get out or stay in the wave in front of me. I just turned up the face and passed her while she shot towards the white water. Another out of control surferbabe I guess.
Both waves were beautiful and very nice rides after I avoided collisions..

The thing is, Batu Bolong and Oldmans are very nice waves with easy relaxed takeoffs compared to the jacking and pitching waves I often surf to avoid the crowds.

In Bali the choice is yours, uncrowded jacking and pitching waves over dangerous reefs or easy waves crowded with dangerous out of control tourists on big boards.

And then there's the Bullsharks at Balian's rivermouth, my last choice out of the three..

[RinkyDink]

Who is right and who is wrong here?

Who do you think is right and wrong there? If someone invades your personal space and accosts you on a day that is essentially a learner's beach day, how should you respond? Is it okay to threaten violence and injury to someone in order enforce surfing etiquette? If that guy accosted your 20 year old daughter because she was in a bikini and was blocking his wave, how would you respond to that? How should people respond to any threat of violence over the intentional or unintentional breaking of a surfing rule?

[Big H]

Hahaha.....cant let that bikini thing go can you?

[RinkyDink]

Hahaha.....cant let that bikini thing go can you?

Well no, I can't. Mainly because it was one of your primary justifications for your own threatening behavior in the water. I'll admit it, though; I have absolutely no problems with bikinis in the lineup. Indeed, I'd be perfectly content with thong bikinis out there. The reason why I asked those questions to you is because I don't see any difference between your behavior and the thug you posted the video of. I'm not sure if you disapprove of his actions, or are cheering him on. What is your position on dealing with crowded lineups? You keep posting these threads about crowded lineups so what are fishing for? There are crowded lineups. What else is new? What discussion do you want to have about them? What is acceptable behavior to you?

[Big H]

Rink....one of the biggest issues for Bali surfers is crowds.....I don't know what it is like where you surf, but here people come from around the world to surf and it gets CROWDED....so crowded that I don't think you would get a wave on a busy break because with 50+ vying for the same peak of 4-5 set waves, who can keep track. In this instance, there was a video that I thought would be interpreted differently by different people who had different experience levels so I wanted to present it to the group. My opinion is secondary; I'm the presenter and don't want to steer any answers with bias of my view. What counts is the reactions from everyone; maybe we can learn something from this and all can benefit, whether it is increased knowledge or sensitivity or even how those from the representative groups (the stumbling learner, the frustrated experienced local) view the same video and how contrasting those views can be........discussions like this can help to gain perspective which in turn can lead to increased sensitivity and understanding that might not be apparent based on an individual's point of view. Your view and Wkkchan's are very different, while others fall somewhere in between....all posts are valid points of view and worth a moment of pause and consideration.

Thank you for your outrage; it adds depth to the discussion..

[jaffa1949]

Uncle Jaffa has a set of varied positions on these sort of situations.
First off we do not know the back story. I have pushed people off waves I have punched the nose of a short board out, I have launched verbal tirades not through a sense of entitlement but because talking to the people who engendered these response virtually said FU and proceeded to continue dropping in.
Our break can be world class or a really good learners break. Often the better guys will leave the learners days alone and let them get on with learning.
The better days are now ( thanks internet) no longer a protected happy event , out of towners arrive in ever greater numbers and because they are passing through often have no manners towards any other surfer.
We have a crew of upcoming grommets and a good crew of excellent women surfing.
The local way is taking turns and sharing and mutual encouragement .
Visitors who join this format are welcome .
Newbies who venture out on the better days are told the traffic rule gently , if they are unheeding then they get pushed to the side more and more because of the danger they pose to both themselves and others.
The old hands have often been told to mind their own business in deleted expletives and then 20 minute later having to rescue the same person.
I have had aggressive short boarders aiming their board at my head when dropping in ( having previously called them into a wave or two). He was the one I punched a hole through the nose of his board.
Rinky you are a civilised guy, what would your responses be under similar circumstances?
How would you assert a space for yourself in that sort of crowd?
99% of the time our break is mellow, we know who our misfits are and we can choose to be in the water with them or not.
We haven't got the Indonesian luxury of consistent surf seasons nor have we the crowds but 60 out on a classic day, hmmm, but the traffic knows its way around.
40 or so on a school holiday learners day that is good for just that, we protect the learners local and visiting from aggression and encourage sharing.
It is mainly the young "adults" and the fat, rediscover my youth, business men who ruin that sort of day.
Are there options to go elsewhere? Sometimes!
Unwritten rubber rules, truly !

[Big H]

Also, to be so aggressive on a wave like that is pathetic

That bit was unanimous on the other site......other words to describe him were used though....

Honestly, it was divided over there as well....the pusher had his share of staunch supporters and those who thought his behaviour was reprehensible....some in the middle thought he was correct in that it was his wave but was overly aggressive considering the conditions.

Kuta beach is a learners break on alot of days in stretches of the beach, certain areas break steeper and further out and is where the more accomplished surfers go; today it was 1.5 overhead on the sets across the board......really no such thing as a learner's beach or break here on a day to day basis.

Batu Bolong is unique in that the waves are, especially on high tide, more approachable than usual local jacking waves.....Batu Bolong is very popular among the longboard set for this reason as well as short time visitors due to its approachable location, great parking, hundreds of surfboard rentals and several peaks and breaks, rights and lefts in the immediate vicinity, Batu Bolong being just one (there is an entire inside section off to the left of the rock as you look out that is very beginner friendly with surfable reforms and acres of space). There are additional recognised breaks like Canggu further down and Old Man's which Tudeo spoke of that are accessible from the same parking. Anyhow, the area is a surf magnet, Batu Bolong directly in the middle of if all. There are regulars, but it can be a half hour before you see all the faces in the lineup on crowded days. I've long since stopped going on a regular basis; I did for awhile as it was a good wave to take the next steps in my development on (bigger waves, longer rides, turns)....I learned how to do a cutback on that wave.....a big lazy rolling cutback it was too. There are alot of very raw beginners out there, and some who seem to paddle out for the scene and sit on the shoulder and never even try for a wave. Mixed in are some very good surfers who ride that wave beautifully, flirting with the pocket and taking the wave from way out back all the way inside to just short of the rock. Lineup makeup includes a large segment of out of control surfer girls and boys as well as a fair amount that just have no idea at all and are constantly getting caught inside and mainly flail about trying to either throw their boards when a wave comes or struggle to get back on and balanced before the next one comes. It can be a drag on days where the wave is good like Tudeo was writing about, and you were not able to avoid the numerous obstacles and are forced off a really nice wave because of general kookery.

Last time I was out there I called it after a bit more than an hour because of the handful of waves I managed to claim I had to cut out all but one of them because the traffic was just too heavy; it was a ride-straight-only day.....I totally get the frustration of a spot regular, but at this point it would be like fighting the tide with a single bucket......

In the end that break just has too many transient people....either pure holiday tourists here only for a few days or longer stay short time residents who just don't have enough invested locally to worry too much about stepping on toes.

[RinkyDink]

Rinky you are a civilised guy, what would your responses be under similar circumstances?
How would you assert a space for yourself in that sort of crowd?

As far as I'm concerned, if someone intentionally invaded my space and physically accosted me, then I would defend myself aggressively, very aggressively. However, I would never initiate violence or imply it. Once you go down that road, you become one of these people.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZOTo1K_Kp0

I don't want to become a person who requires everyone to wear an O'Neill wetsuit instead of a Ripcurl or any other brand at my local break. I don't ever want to become a super consumer who turns every wave into a Black Friday big screen TV. I would quit surfing if I had to become a consumerbot.

[Big H]

I would never initiate violence or imply it.

Hahahaha............forget surfing! The implication of violence is probably about 25% of my job!

[waikikikichan]

if someone intentionally invaded my space and physically accosted me, then I would defend myself aggressively, very aggressively.

This is not directed to you, but the kooks that drop in believe they still have their "space" and their right to the wave. But it's more that they ( the drop in person ) INVADED the other rider, not the other way around. If they never dropped in or blocked, paddle in front, went right instead of left, THEN they would be no reason to push down or get physical. It's the rider not in priority/position to look out and be safe.

I have a broken leg because a person in front of me INVADED my space. Had I pushed her down or just ran her over, My leg would've have been broken. But i did the civil thing, turned down to avoid her and she plowed into me with the nose of her shortboard ( at a longboard spot ) going into my leg. Me getting hurt or her getting hurt could have been avoided if she just didn't drop in. Once someone drops in, paddles in front, kooks out, that precious "space" is disrupted.

In the posted video, what do you think the outcome is ? The local paddles back and a argument about surf etiquette ensues ? The black rider aggressively defends his space ? Most likely, the black rider simply just learned what he did was not good and doesn't drop in on that local ( or others ). Lesson learned, no blood no foul.

[waikikikichan]

Here's a site to counter the chaos "Black Friday" video. http://www.shmula.com/japan-earthquake- ... eing/8321/

“Looting simply does not take place in Japan. I’m not even sure if there’s a word for it that is as clear in its implications as when we hear ‘looting,’” Japanese have “a sense of being first and foremost responsible to the community,”

We all can learn from them in our Surfing Community,

[RinkyDink]

I would never initiate violence or imply it.

Hahahaha............forget surfing! The implication of violence is probably about 25% of my job!

kook

[RinkyDink]

. . .the kooks that drop in believe they still have their "space" and their right to the wave

I don't disagree that there are morons in the water. There are also plenty of George Zimmerman clones out there making the crowd situation even worse. Surfing is dangerous and any time you're dealing with the masses the danger escalates dramatically. I just don't think violence or the threat of violence is any solution. Just like I don't believe road rage removes the complete morons driving cars on the road. There will always be bonehead drivers out in traffic.

Sorry to hear about your leg. Sounds like that was excruciating.

[Big H]

I would never initiate violence or imply it.

Hahahaha............forget surfing! The implication of violence is probably about 25% of my job!

kook

I know you don't like me but no need for name calling. I thought you had more creative ability than that.

I would never initiate violence or imply it.

You know that not everyone feels this way right?

I'll let you in on a secret Rink from someone who doesn't share your views........quite often the implication of violence is enough to avoid real violence....call it being pro-active. Keeps people honest as well and makes them think twice about toeing any line that you'd have to defend yourself very aggressively.

I've been mowed down by reckless kooks......I've also done the same thing as in the video or grabbed the board as the person was dropping in ON me and flipped it up dumping them in the water.....saved myself injury and probably someone else as I follow up with implied violence driving the point home, the point being don't drop in.