Surfing Waves

Hello all -

I'm 6'3", 178 pounds, fit, 52 year old. Surf on average once a week, in 3 to 6 foot beach break. Main board has been a 7'10" minimal at 55L. I consider myself a low level intermediate surfer. I'm getting a Pyzel Phantom shortboard. Please don't ask me philosophical questions on why my mind has settled on a Phantom and try to convince me otherwise. That's not why I'm asking a question here. I would love advice as to how high you would recommend I go (length and or volume) while still, given a practice and the waves I surf (already noted) I could reasonably duck dive. 6'6" at 43L or 6'8" at 46L, or something else? Really do appreciate your opinions here. Thank you so much!

If you want to duck dive then 43L will still be fairly hard at your weight. You should be able to get it under a few feet but not really deep. Of course as you become more skilled at this (you presumably have no skill at the moment) it gets easier

But 6’8 will be a slightly easier transition in terms of catching waves and standing up. Not that 2 inches will make a huge difference really

Just get either one; for whatever reason you have chosen this model, the 2 inches won’t make much difference to you at your level. No point agonising over it.

I am 5'2", 126 lbs., un-fit, 51 years old. If I can duck dive my 6'4" 40.2 L retro fish, you should be able to duck dive the 6'8".

BTW, I inputted you info into Pyzel's volume calculator, the 6'8" Phantom doesn't come up since maybe there is not a 6'8" in stock dimensions, but there is a 6'6" Phantom if your fitness is "excellent". The Ghost does appear in the 6'8" size although.

Question : Up to what size board have you duck dived before ?

Thanks all!

To answer your question - I've never duck dived before, only turtle rolled. I hope to learn though with proper instruction, practice and patience.

BTW - you can order the Phantom in sizes above 6'6", up to 7'2". Guess they call it the Phantom XL.

Interesting the range of comments I've received on sizing when calling Pyzel's San Clemente, Oceansize and Hawaii offices. Even emailed Noel Salas about it too and he kindly responded. After giving them all my information (body type, skill level, experience, how often I surf, what kind of surf, etc.) the "ideal" recommended weight that's been presented to me have been between 6'2" and 7'0". All over the map essentially. Not sure why as I think I'm talking to very knowledgeable people who are listening to my story. So then it makes it hard for me to decide. I'm leaning 6'8", but I am a bit concerned as many have said "you'll never be able to properly duck dive that board", or "why go so high - you'll never be able to turn that board for what it was designed to do".

This will be my first shortboard and do expect a learning curve. Obviously I will keep all my other boards that are larger, and likely continue surf them time to time.

Good surfers can turns longboard a short board and all thing in between.
Get hold of something like what you want, try it and see.
Everybody has opinions about what you should choose, you are theone laying out the dollars and whether you can duck dive it or not, isvavsomwhat.
How does it ride for you is the big question!

pjgazele wrote:Interesting the range of comments I've received on sizing when calling Pyzel's San Clemente, Oceansize and Hawaii offices. Even emailed Noel Salas about it too and he kindly responded. After giving them all my information (body type, skill level, experience, how often I surf, what kind of surf, etc.) the "ideal" recommended weight that's been presented to me have been between 6'2" and 7'0". All over the map essentially. Not sure why as I think I'm talking to very knowledgeable people who are listening to my story.

pjgazele wrote:Please don't ask me philosophical questions on why my mind has settled on a Phantom and try to convince me otherwise.

Please please do not get mad at me or think I'm trolling you. The reason why you are getting responses that are so varied is because YOU do not know what YOU want. So some of them are trying to be "Nice" and err to the large side. Some are not trying to argue with you and say " well, if you want a short board, then here's a shortboard (even though they know you won't be able to ride it ). They ARE very knowledgeable, but only can share their knowledge with a student willing to listen. ( and listen to reason, which you have stated you will not be persuaded ). No one wants to put you down or shatter your dream ( or lose a sale ), but I will be honest and say you are not ready to be on a board like that. Why, because I care about you and you asked for advice and that is my advice from seeing so many people go down the wrong path the same as you are. Buying a board to be able to duckdive but yet not be able to get on the wave is putting the cart in front of the horse. If your current go-to board is a 7'10", I would at least master a 7'2" - 6'10" hybrid before moving onto a 6'8" shortboard ( which yes, you can duck dive once you learn the proper technique ).

Again, I want you to be the best surfer YOU can be and want to be totally honest with you.

Just to add to waikikichan, I’m always a bit wary of scaled up shortboards. If you are a short boarder who needs a bigger board due to age or weight or injury etc - all good. If you are a long boarder trying to get a big shortboard as a substitute for a proper mid length- be wary. Just because a board works well at 5’10 doesn’t meant it works well at 6’10.

Well, chances are that it will be fine simply because your skill level isn’t high enough to realise the shortcomings. But a bigger short board can sometimes be overly twitchy (like a shortboard) but still not easy to turn, the worst of both worlds

That said, Pyzel is a great shaper and the website indicates that there are some design tweaks between the standard and the XL version, so it looks like a pretty good board. Still, quite a narrow nose (like a short board); don’t expect it will work like a mid length. It’s a big shortboard, for good or bad

See the two boards below - white one is the Phantom and second one (with the coloured rails) is a mid length hybrid (it’s a miller waterskate, which is the board I have). You can see how the front half of the board is quite a bit different. The rails are probably a bit different as well; both are single to double concave.

Anyway, so long as you know what you are buying and the good and bad points

I’m 6’1, weight around the same as you. I had a 5’11 - 31ltr for a year and replaced it after a recent snap with a 6’1 - 34ish ltr, both were fine for me but the 6’1 gets into waves easier On less powerful days. Get a squash tail also if your not just looking for a barrel board.

Hey Hamish. Have you had any probs with glass job? Just wondering as am thinking of getting one but have noted a few people commenting on pressures etc. Also they are pretty thick and wondered if you tend to feel you are riding on top of the wave if you get what I mean. Cheers. Agree on the squash tail advice.

Yeah the 5’11 had standard 4x4x4 and seemed to crack on the rails just by looking at them. My 6’1 was custom with a 6 x 4 x 4 and isn’t as bad as the deck later wraps around the rails, but I do notice the slight weight difference when holding the board, but some of this might also be from the extra 2 inches. Buy one man, good board, of the Astropop if you normally surf less average waves.

Re problems with the glass job, Yeah several, purchased mine brand new, surfed about 50 times, treated really well, few decent wipeouts, etc and the rails are full or cracks, one went right through and had to get repaired. The repair guy reckons there was definitely something wrong with the glass job and was really surprised by the the zero impact damage. Pretty much small cracks all around the traction pad (I imagine under also) and around pressure dings, wouldn't buy one again no way. Pretty annoyed TBH. For a cheap board, fair enough but not for AUD1k.

I’m a year younger than you, a little bigger at 6’1” and 90kg, live in Bali and surf most days. I also run 15k min daily, so pretty fit as wellI learned to surf when I moved here 13 years ago starting on longboards (which I still ride) and went thru that frustrating process of learning how to surf smaller boards as an adult. It’s possible but takes time.

My advice is to not buy the phantom. No amount of research is going to help you through the transition. Short boards are different t than 7’10” boards and even a 6’10” is going to feel like a feather under your feet. More than that though, as DTC alluded to, sized up shortboards are awkward in that when they are too long the pivot is too far forward from the tail which means you’re not able to ride off the tail as you would with a shortboard, more in the middle ish like Devon Howard does in the ci mid videos which is fine for a more hybrid shape or old school eggy single fin which is designed for this including a bigger nose and foam distribution that accounts for this riding position. Scaled up shortboards don’t have that as they were designed to be best ridden at shorter lengths. When you step down on your lead foot on a shortboard it should be like an accelerator. If the board is over length you won’t get that.

If you really want to learn to ride a shorter board then don’t get hung up on the model. A 7’2” somewhat pointy nosed funboard will open a lot of doors for you and be more than enough of a step down. When I first started bout a year in I went to a local shaper Bruce Hansel who’d been here for several years and at the north shore before that since the late 70s. I followed his advice which was that I didn’t need a board shaped. I didn’t need a new board at all. He told me that I should look for a used mini Mal around 7 12ft and then ride that for two more years. After that a funboard around 7’ and do another year at or two on that. Told me not to worry about duck diving but learn to read the break and get out and make turns on those two boards and I’d make the best use of my time.

If you have your heart set on the phantom and won’t be swayed, do yourself a favor and at the least try a similar shaped and sized board. I’d look at the used market and buy something similar on the cheap and then go see for yourself. Then go get a midsized funboard and do the same.

Last bit. I don’t know where you surf but struggling beginner intermediates here don’t get waves off the main peak. A board like the phantom doesn’t work off the shoulder or in below average surf when the good surfers don’t come out. Here, to get waves you have to be able to take them and do something other than fall or big out in the impact zone blocking others for the rest of the set. Buy gradual step downs you can still hold your place in the lineup and get enough good waves off a good peak to actually develop.

I hope you listen to all the advice given. Lineups are already full of folks on boards too small.

Specific answer to your question: at your height to hit the sweet spot off the tail you should get 6’1” to 6’4” in the phantom xl. Those cover a range of 36-40L. Since you will be hard pressed to actually surf a board that size you should look at other boards.


FWIW, I was out a couple weeks ago with my 9’4” longboard in overhead surf and was duck diving by getting forward on the nose and twisting the board sideways to cut down easier. Should try with your 7’10” while you are deliberating.