Surfing Waves

Hi, I'm trying to get back to surfing after being land-locked for 20 years.
I'm 6'2" and 275, (my ideal weight is probably 220-225... But I haven't been that weight since the '90s). I know what to do. Can read the waves, etc, and paddle, but I'm just not catching anything and before I invest in a bigger board, I just wanted to see if maybe i'm delusional about my fitness, or if it really is a board volume issue...
I have a 10'6", 23.25"wide, 3.25 thick, single fin, nose rider... I talked to a couple shapers before I bought this one and basically got "Get the longest, thickest, widest board you can find, and dominate the lineup" talk... Followed by the "...but I know this guy that's 300 pounds, rides a shortboard and rips!"
They were talking about shaping a 10' 24", 4.25 board for me... And I knew about this one and thought, it's pretty close and maybe the difference wouldn't be that bad.

So I took it out on a decent day and it beat the crap out of me. It was unstable... I kept moving around on it, trying to find the balance point but I'm not sure I ever got it. Even though I was at a "learners break" the other newbs were paddling past me like I was standing still. Everything I paddled for went under me, no matter how hard I dug. It wasn't too long before I was wiped and called it a day.

So was it me or the board? Asking for a friend.

its....you

Sure there are boards that people describe as 'dogs' but that really means its a bit slower or bit harder to turn or paddle than expected. Maybe 85% as good. But you arent in the 85% level yet, you are in the 25% level. So it would be highly unlikely you have a board that is impossible to catch waves with.

It is a big board and that does have consequences - the obvious is that a big board takes a while to get up to speed (and nose riders arent designed to be easy to paddle, they are designed to be nose riders, and are usually a bit slower). So you need to allow a bit of extra time (ie extra paddle distance) and correspondingly start your paddle earlier, which might be well before the wave arrives. It also needs a bit of paddle strength because its big - you may not have that, or at least you start getting tired quickly.

The board I think has plenty of volume for your weight. Its probably over 95L - its definitely in the ballpark for your weight and abilities (basing that assumption off the walden mega magic at 10'0'x 23 1/2 x 3 3/16 = 96.2 ltr - and yours is longer and slightly thicker).

So adding all that up, yes the board you have is probably slightly 'harder' to paddle (and hence harder to build up speed and therefore harder to catch waves) than another similar sized board (particularly an all rounder board). But the difference between 'slightly harder' and 'the most paddle efficient board possible' isnt great. Your board is absolutely not preventing you from catching waves, whats preventing you is... you.

That hopefully doesnt sound too harsh; basically you are a beginner again and beginners take a while to catch waves. You need to build up some paddle fitness (swimming is good as well), you probably need to build up some of those 'surf muscles' that dont get used that much in day to day life if you arent regularly exercising (core, glutes, shoulders etc).

Maybe try a session in the white water just to get the feeling back a little bit. Back your expectations down a little bit - with previous surfing experience you will probably progress more quickly than the average beginner, but you need to start down at the start, build the foundation and then move on up.

keep up the stoke!

kilroy wrote:1) Can read the waves, etc, and paddle, but I'm just not catching anything
2) I have a 10'6", 23.25"wide, 3.25 thick, single fin, nose rider.
3) I took it out on a decent day and it beat the crap out of me. It was unstable... I kept moving around on it, trying to find the balance point but I'm not sure I ever got it.
4) Everything I paddled for went under me, no matter how hard I dug.

First I am not a troll and asking genuine question to get a better understanding of exactly what your situation is.
1) If you can read waves, then you know WHERE to be and WHEN to go. If you can paddle, then you know the HOW to get on a wave. Then what is the problem ? Could it be a wonky board ?

2) If your 10'6" is a true "Noserider", then it should have a large concave area under the nose. That's to help you noseride, but it sacrifices a bit of paddling. If you are not noseriding, you should not order nose concaves.

3) Thus your Positioning on the board was wrong. Just a inch too forward or too back makes a big difference in paddling and glide. ( Thus I don't think it's the boards fault ). And when you feel unbalanced on the paddle, you might unconsciously widen you knees and dragged a foot in the water, which slows you down even more.

4) Don't need to paddle harder, paddle smarter. If the waves past under you, you were too far back on the board. If you never pearled/nose dived that day, then easily you could of move up more.

waikikikichan wrote:

kilroy wrote:1) Can read the waves, etc, and paddle, but I'm just not catching anything
2) I have a 10'6", 23.25"wide, 3.25 thick, single fin, nose rider.
3) I took it out on a decent day and it beat the crap out of me. It was unstable... I kept moving around on it, trying to find the balance point but I'm not sure I ever got it.
4) Everything I paddled for went under me, no matter how hard I dug.

First I am not a troll and asking genuine question to get a better understanding of exactly what your situation is.
1) If you can read waves, then you know WHERE to be and WHEN to go. If you can paddle, then you know the HOW to get on a wave. Then what is the problem ? Could it be a wonky board ?

2) If your 10'6" is a true "Noserider", then it should have a large concave area under the nose. That's to help you noseride, but it sacrifices a bit of paddling. If you are not noseriding, you should not order nose concaves.

3) Thus your Positioning on the board was wrong. Just a inch too forward or too back makes a big difference in paddling and glide. ( Thus I don't think it's the boards fault ). And when you feel unbalanced on the paddle, you might unconsciously widen you knees and dragged a foot in the water, which slows you down even more.

4) Don't need to paddle harder, paddle smarter. If the waves past under you, you were too far back on the board. If you never pearled/nose dived that day, then easily you could of move up more.

Yep... That's the frustrating part... I'm either just way more out of shape than I thought. Which I can accept.
Or the board isn't working for me, which I can also see...

It's got a slight concave near the nose, but not as big as a lot of true spoon noseriders I've seen...

I know I'm basically a beginner again and so this time out, I didn't expect much, but I was really focusing on my paddling and I'm not sure what more I could have done... Deep, cupped hands low front body... Tried feet up or down, it didn't help much. I was paddling earlier than most people I was watching on this break, but the board didn't seem to glide. It's sitting lower in the water than I expected.
I did try catching some whitewater in closer to shore but that didn't seem to work either.

I bought the board because I figured it was plenty big enough for me to get back into surfing again, and was pretty cheap compared to either having something shaped or buying an off the rack board. So I could afford to make mistakes. It's used but lightly. No dings or anything like that.

I'm going to take it out a few more times and see what happens... If it still doesn't feel right, I'll maybe look for a change...

dtc wrote:its....you

Sure there are boards that people describe as 'dogs' but that really means its a bit slower or bit harder to turn or paddle than expected. Maybe 85% as good. But you arent in the 85% level yet, you are in the 25% level. So it would be highly unlikely you have a board that is impossible to catch waves with.

It is a big board and that does have consequences - the obvious is that a big board takes a while to get up to speed (and nose riders arent designed to be easy to paddle, they are designed to be nose riders, and are usually a bit slower). So you need to allow a bit of extra time (ie extra paddle distance) and correspondingly start your paddle earlier, which might be well before the wave arrives. It also needs a bit of paddle strength because its big - you may not have that, or at least you start getting tired quickly.

The board I think has plenty of volume for your weight. Its probably over 95L - its definitely in the ballpark for your weight and abilities (basing that assumption off the walden mega magic at 10'0'x 23 1/2 x 3 3/16 = 96.2 ltr - and yours is longer and slightly thicker).

So adding all that up, yes the board you have is probably slightly 'harder' to paddle (and hence harder to build up speed and therefore harder to catch waves) than another similar sized board (particularly an all rounder board). But the difference between 'slightly harder' and 'the most paddle efficient board possible' isnt great. Your board is absolutely not preventing you from catching waves, whats preventing you is... you.

That hopefully doesnt sound too harsh; basically you are a beginner again and beginners take a while to catch waves. You need to build up some paddle fitness (swimming is good as well), you probably need to build up some of those 'surf muscles' that dont get used that much in day to day life if you arent regularly exercising (core, glutes, shoulders etc).

Maybe try a session in the white water just to get the feeling back a little bit. Back your expectations down a little bit - with previous surfing experience you will probably progress more quickly than the average beginner, but you need to start down at the start, build the foundation and then move on up.

keep up the stoke!

No... that's fine... I can accept if it's just me being out of shape... I definitely felt it. I was using muscles I don't usually use, that said, it did seem to be a lot more work than I thought a board that size would be. Then again... There were young clearly experienced guys, probably 1/3rd my weight on boards way bigger than mine. So I started to think maybe my board wasn't as upsized as I thought it was. That maybe I really did need that extra inch of thickness, and another couple inches of width. Hence the question here...

I did try catching some white water that day too, and wasn't super successful but I'm willing to chalk that up to fatigue.

Zero expectations... I know I'm starting over. In fact, I'm embracing it as a chance to do it right this time... I'm just surprised this board didn't feel more stable and forgiving, given it's size.

I'll try it some more...

kilroy wrote:I was really focusing on my paddling and I'm not sure what more I could have done... Deep, cupped hands

Screeeeeeechh ( record scratch ), did you just say CUPPED HANDS ??? That right there is a problem.

kilroy wrote:[ I was using muscles I don't usually use, that said, it did seem to be a lot more work than I thought a board that size would be. Then again... There were young clearly experienced guys, probably 1/3rd my weight on boards way bigger than mine. So I started to think maybe my board wasn't as upsized as I thought it was. That maybe I really did need that extra inch of thickness, and another couple inches of width. Hence the question here...

I doubt that anyone else had 'way bigger' boards than you - I'm not sure I've seen more than a handful of 10'6 boards and there are a lot of longboarders where I surf. A lot of youngsters (hipsters?) are into longboarding nowadays and are very good surfers; dont measure yourself against them

I mean, there is nothing bad about getting a bigger or thicker board if you want; I dont know that you need it but if it makes you feel more comfortable or confident then its worth it. But I would give it a few more sessions and see how you progress. It may be that the noseriding shape just isnt working for you, for example

How many sessions will it take to get better? Probably a lot. It seems like One step forwards and two steps back sometimes. I've even felt like I was actively becoming a worse surfer! But surfing takes a lot of practice. And it's not exactly a sympathetic sport in that regard either. One trip to the beach might equal just one or two actual rides! I could get one or two actual rides on a skateboard on a fifteen minute smoke break! So unless you've got a wave pool it's just putting in the time bro. And yeah, under paddling is a common mistake. I know because I do!

waikikikichan wrote:

kilroy wrote:I was really focusing on my paddling and I'm not sure what more I could have done... Deep, cupped hands

Screeeeeeechh ( record scratch ), did you just say CUPPED HANDS ??? That right there is a problem.

OK, maybe cupped wasn't the right word, but you know... Not all spread and floppy...

I actually did try different hand positions just to see if anything helped... Point being, I don't think it was a lack of paddling strength or form, which is what I expected might be my biggest problem coming back from such a long layoff, even though I do swim a lot...
I really focused on it... And it just felt like there was more drag than there should be.

I think you're original point about balance is probably where I need to focus. I never found the sweet spot on the board.

dtc wrote:

kilroy wrote:[ I was using muscles I don't usually use, that said, it did seem to be a lot more work than I thought a board that size would be. Then again... There were young clearly experienced guys, probably 1/3rd my weight on boards way bigger than mine. So I started to think maybe my board wasn't as upsized as I thought it was. That maybe I really did need that extra inch of thickness, and another couple inches of width. Hence the question here...

I doubt that anyone else had 'way bigger' boards than you - I'm not sure I've seen more than a handful of 10'6 boards and there are a lot of longboarders where I surf. A lot of youngsters (hipsters?) are into longboarding nowadays and are very good surfers; dont measure yourself against them

I mean, there is nothing bad about getting a bigger or thicker board if you want; I dont know that you need it but if it makes you feel more comfortable or confident then its worth it. But I would give it a few more sessions and see how you progress. It may be that the noseriding shape just isnt working for you, for example

There were at least 4 or 5 young guys I saw with 12'ers... I only saw 2 of them actually surfing, and they were pretty good, but I figured if there were that many, there were probably more huge boards there too... It was pretty packed that day.

Not comparing myself to them, my point is, if those guys brought their biggest boards that day, maybe for the break and conditions, bigger would have helped.
It was Doheny, which is a big longboarder spot and has a rep as a good place to learn, and is fairly close to my house... So I might be there a lot.

Ratfinksurfer wrote:How many sessions will it take to get better? Probably a lot. It seems like One step forwards and two steps back sometimes. I've even felt like I was actively becoming a worse surfer! But surfing takes a lot of practice. And it's not exactly a sympathetic sport in that regard either. One trip to the beach might equal just one or two actual rides! I could get one or two actual rides on a skateboard on a fifteen minute smoke break! So unless you've got a wave pool it's just putting in the time bro. And yeah, under paddling is a common mistake. I know because I do!

Yep... And I'd be happy if it's just me... I like the board.
And I'd prefer to just be getting beat up in the water than going all over the place spending money I don't have, trying to find the 'perfect' board...
I don't really care that much about how many waves I ride, if I'm honest, or if I'm ever considered a 'good' surfer... I just want to have fun and be able to avoid killing small children if I ever do catch a wave... I wasn't a whole lot beyond that 20 years ago if I'm honest.

One day on a board is nothing. Just keep going out. You will find your balance and become more comfortable with time. I am 6'2" and weigh 215 ....okay sometimes 220 and my ideal weight is probably around 185 to 190. I surfed long ago and restarted using a 9'6 inch longboard. I got along fairly well and found the longboard was holding me back. I could feel the weight in the nose as I turned not that that stopped me from shedding. I got an 8 foot fungun made for me and it was so unstable I fell off it paddling and couldn't sit on it without it shooting out from under me. It was so awkward just like you I worried I made the wrong choice however after a few more times out it became more familiar and I started to really like the board. Now I absolutely love that board. I would marry it but I would have to get divorced first and my wife is fine with my great affection for that board so I guess I am lucky to have 2 loves in my life.

It sounds like there are a few factors at play here to me. I'm 43yo, 115kg & my everyday board atm is a Sean Wilde 9'6 pig. I mainly surf around Long Reef in Sydney which has a bombie, reef breaks, shories & a lazy break or two around Collaroy.

1- The board. Sure it's a specific board as pointed out, effectivly shaped to be slow so you can get over the nose & hold a line as opposed to a faster board that would shoot you out into the flats, but I still wouldn't think that would be the total problem. One question, was it second hand & has it been snapped? I have 10ft T&C Tollhurst noserider that was stuck back together & it's just no good. But that size for your weight sounds about right to me.

2- The wave. You mention it's a learners wave. To me that sounds like a fat, weak, mushy roller which equates to paddling harder just to get onto it unless you are in the sweet spot. Nothing saps the spirit and frustrates more (will touch on this later) than paddling your guts out & not getting onto waves, while watching others effortlessly paddle doesn't help, but focus on you- not them. But it should also still be doable on that board.

3- Your history. I think it could be a good time to wipe your past slate clean & use this time to unlearn bad habits, techniques & preconceived notions. Simply put, 20 years ago we were all younger, stronger, more flexible, lighter & fitter- that combo would offset any bad techniques we learnt then in any athletic pursuit. Today is a different situation. Also after only a short time back in the water your expectations are very high.

4- Your fitness. We could all be fitter, but I reckon this will be a bigger part when you get onto waves & start popping up. In the meantime the paddle fitness is what's really needed to be built on at this stage, which leads me to my last point....

5- Your technique. Some of the descriptions of your paddling technique sound like this might be the lowest hanging fruit. Your description of not having fingers spread & floppy is almost my exact technique- long strokes with a relaxed & loose hand & a 'pull through the water . There is an interesting video by Nick Carroll from Coastalwatch on this subject. I also have a few different 'gears' in my paddling- slower for energy conservation, faster strokes when there's a clean up set coming , sprint paddling where I'm almost trying to wriggle off the board when it's a bit fatter or later, etc- it is interesting to hear Nick attack a lot of preconceived notions. The main one being stress to the shoulders restricting blood flow which comes from cupped hands & an arched back that so many shortboarders use. Add that with all the above & throw in a bit of that frustration (bunched, tense muscles restricting more blood flow which leads to less paddling power & stamina) & you have that which you described- very difficult to catch waves.

I think this is the most likely cause & combination from first hand experience- I started surfing 5 years ago & went about it in all the wrong way.

The biggest progress I made was with a cruddy 8ft softie- foamies have heaps of bouyoncy & in my experience are the best craft to learn (or relearn) on.

After a while of trying to ride totally unsuitable boards, I made a conscious decision that if I was to be the shittest surfer, then I would be on the shittiest board. Now I'm a less shitty surfer on better boards.

Hope you stick it with & keep the froth alive!

How did ya go? Any progression with the board and/or paddling?