Wave catching technique vs board types vs fitness

[pjgazele]

I have question I’ve been meaning to ask one the topic of wave catching process, relative a) shortboard vs. longboard, and b) fitness level of surfer.

I’m going to back up from saying the objective is not to “catch” the wave, but rather to “surf” the wave. You may be able to catch it but if you can’t properly pop up and get down the line, well then you didn’t really achieve ultimately what you set out to do – surf the wave.

I typically see longboarders learn to catch a wave by watching the line up, getting into good position, then start paddling roughly 30 feet or so before the peak of the wave is actually at their position and speed of the board is reaching close to the speed of wave coming up underneath you, and you grab the wave, pop up, and surf it.

I typically see shortboarders do something a bit different. They start later. Sometime they wait until the wave is nearly at them before they drop their torso down onto the board, make a few quick, powerful arm strokes, and then pop up and surf it. I usually don’t see them start to paddle way before like longboarders do. You have to admit, it is more or less a different approach or strategy here.

So there seems to be slight difference in style and process between the two of ultimately getting into a positon where you can surf the wave. This leads me to the dilemma. I keep hearing people say, “well, before you move from a longboard to a shortboard you need to develop fitness, and be able to have paddling power”? But what does “fitness” really mean in this context? Fitness is relative too. So what are we talking about here? I’m a tall, thin, relatively muscular male. I’m 50 years old, been a freestyle swimmer and long distance runner most of life, and have also done strength training consistently throughout my life. I have no problem getting my longboard up to speed when I have a minimum of 30 feet or so for paddling. So do I have fitness needed for a shortboard? I know fitness is not the only thing, there’s also technique and balance. More importantly, if fitness is needed to get a longboard into position to surf, then how does this “fitness” matter then when the technique of getting a shortboard into position to pop up and trim the line is different than the technique of getting a longboard into position to pop up and trim the line?

Help in understanding all this will be much appreciated! And can a beginner/intermediate surfer go to shortboard if they are “fit” (whatever that means), and can paddle sufficiently (whatever that mean too, especially as I’ve already mentioned, I see longboarders paddle approach to a wave different than shortboarders paddle approach to a wave).

Thanks!

[dtc]

I think you are mixing up concepts of ‘fitness’. Fitness for surfing is getting yourself into the position to paddle for a wave ie paddling out, paddling to stay in position with a current etc. This is where a longboard is so much better; it takes a lot more effort (and hence fitness) to paddle a shortboard for long periods of time.

Paddling for a wave is a power activity rather than a cardio activity. A 10m sprint

That said, you have described the different styles of catching waves well. All surfers need speed to catch a wave, otherwise they perl or go over the falls. The key difference is that shortboarders use a lot of gravity to create speed while longboarders use paddling.

The flip side is that shortboarders need to be in the exact right position to utilise gravity (slope of the wave), while longboarders have a much greater margin for error. Shortboarders have to have great timing, pop up quickly at the right time. Again, longboarders have a much greater margin.

So the difference in catching the waves isn’t really a question of fitness, at this point it’s a question of positioning, timing, technique and speed. Great swimming ability doesn’t translate into great wave catching ability, but it does mean you can paddle around for longer

The only way to know if your technique is ready for shortboarding is to get a shortboard and try...

(As an aside, there are studies that found max paddle speed is directly correlated to pull up ability. The fastest paddlers can do a pull up with 40% of their body weight attached ie 140% of bw. Of course plenty of people can catch waves without being able to do a single pull up, so this is more a theoretical thing. Still, pull ups are good!)

[tomthetreeman]

Great post, great reply! I am 48 years old, 6’1”, 195-200# and relatively fit for my age. I am one of the people that doesn’t listen to conventional advice... I’ve been surfing just over 1.5 years, about 3 times a week, sometimes more, and I’m constantly trying different boards in different conditions. I’ve probably done myself a disservice by all this switching up, but I have to say it’s fun. In other words, I’d probably be cross stepping naturally and knee-turning my log if I had stuck with it, but I’m all over the map instead.

What I have learned has been spelled out pretty well above. The ability to be in the right spot, the burst required to paddle the shortboard, and most importantly the ability to pop up without all that volume under you in the blink of an eye is a combination of skills that is hard to acquire at 48, I can tell you that.

I often find myself in a close out situation with shorter boards because I’m waiting too far inside (sometimes intentionally... tired, old, cheating), or not close enough to the peak. Also, around here there are few good shortboard waves that aren’t beach breaks, so just getting out is very hard and often discouraging. Also, when the better breaks are crowded, sitting inside is not an option.

Yesterday I had some success at Matunuck in some waist high waves on a 6’ fish. My first dozen attempts didn’t succeed, but I kept at it and wound up getting some waves. I learned a couple new skills too. I realized that I wasn’t kicking hard enough, and I added some real burst to my paddle! A few times I was not lined up with the peak, and with my newfound kick I was able to paddle into position, opposite the direction I would ultimately go, catch the wave and turn. This felt most excellent.

Anyway, that’s my dos centavos. If you stick with one board you’ll master the possibilities of that board quicker. If you experiment like me, you’ll learn lots of new skills, but it’ll take you longer and can be frustrating at times. Sorry for the digression, thanks for humoring me!

Tom

(PS, isn’t there a term for kicking a shortboard? Like harmonics or hum & strum lol?)

[tomthetreeman]

Is it thrumming?

[ConcreteVitamin]

(PS, isn’t there a term for kicking a shortboard? Like harmonics or hum & strum lol?)

I also wonder starting under what length does kicking start to help.

[pjgazele]

Thanks DTC. I think you just clarified something that I’ve been struggling, that is the message I hear so often that you shouldn’t go to shortboard until you have fitness, practiced by, among other things, paddling a longboard. But as you have mentioned, paddling a longboard (into position) is not the same longboard vs. shortboard. So I think this often-cited prerequisite is not so true – because you just don’t typically paddle a shortboard into position like a longboard. So why think you must (have to) to learn and master that first before moving to a shortboard? Again, I don’t see shortboarders paddle into a wave like longboarders.

I suppose the often cited advice is really to get fitness and technique such that you can get into the right position, and pop up and eventually trim. It’s not “before you shortboard, you must learn and be able to paddle a longboard into position, by being able to paddle up to speed by starting at least, roughtly 30 feet or so before the wave catches you.” This doesn’t really make sense as you typically don’t do that with shortboard. It seems the more proper advice should be “before you shortboard, you must learn what it takes to get your board into the right position (including having paddling power), and have good technique to pop up and trim the line. And good way of practicing that for a beginner is to start with longboard to give you a higher rate of success of getting into right position to the wave.” Seems if you can do that fine with a longboard, you are likely ready to try a shortboard.

[oldmansurfer]

How to catch a wave? Shortboard vs longboard? There are only tendencies not requirements. You don't have to paddle a longboard for 30 feet to catch a wave. If you are in the right spot on the right wave you can even do a no paddle takeoff on a longboard. On some waves you may need to paddle 30 feet on a shortboard to catch them (mostly bigger waves). Some waves that lurch up suddenly become very difficult to catch with a shortboard unless you are in the exact best place to catch it but if you get up speed before the wave gets to you then use the high burst speed paddling then you can catch it when your not in the exact right place. It's sometimes very difficult to be in the exact right place. It's about the wave but also your ability to line it up. I normally surf an 8 foot board and I really like it because I can catch waves from a variety of positions in the lineup. It takes late takeoffs pretty well and paddles really well. This allows me to stay outside in position to catch the set waves but still allows me to poach the smaller waves by paddling for 30 feet or so. I like my 7 foot board too but with it I have to be much closer to the right spot to catch it however it takes an even more radical late drop than the 8 foot board so it gives me a little leeway to be on the inside of the best position for the set waves and still catch them. Still overall I only surf for 30 minutes so I want to maximize that time so the 8 foot guarantees more waves.

[waikikikichan]

I also wonder starting under what length does kicking start to help.

As soon as your feet can physically go past the tail, I’d start kicking. I can almost kick on my 6’4” Retro-Fish being 5’3” tall in height.

[waikikikichan]

I’m 50 years old, been a freestyle swimmer and long distance runner most of life, and have also done strength training consistently throughout my life. I have no problem getting my longboard up to speed when I have a minimum of 30 feet or so for paddling. So do I have fitness needed for a shortboard? I know fitness is not the only thing, there’s also technique and balance.

I know an actual U.S. Olympian swimmer that surfed in Waikiki, that was not as good a paddler as some of the locals.
I know some over-weight / fat out of shape uncles that can pick up waves way more easily than the college kids.
There’s three thing to catch a wave, Power, Position and Timing.
You need at least two of the three.
You can make up for lack of Timing ( sets coming in too quick or if a kook suddenly doesn’t go ) by more Power at the right Position.
You can make up for lack of Position ( currents, people blocking ) by timing the pop and powering at the right time.
You can make up for lack of Power ( “fitness”, board volume ) with good position and timing.

But of the three - Position and Timing is more important than Power ( Fitness )

[waikikikichan]

by being able to paddle up to speed by starting at least, roughtly 30 feet or so before the wave catches you.

Question: on average, at your home break, how many paddle strokes do you take before you pop up ?

[pjgazele]

At least about 12 strokes (6 with each arm) while on my 9 foot board, on Oregon surf, give or take a few.

[waikikikichan]

At least about 12 strokes (6 with each arm) while on my 9 foot board, on Oregon surf, give or take a few.

If that is NOT including the paddles to get IN TO position TO take off, Then that's way too many strokes. You should be at max speed ( terminal velocity ) in about 5-6 strokes. After that you won't be any faster and just using up energy.

Position and Timing is more important than Fitness ( Power )

[ConcreteVitamin]

Wow, that video not only shows no-paddle take off but also shows fading. How does the surfer identify it's beneficial to fade?

[waikikikichan]

How does the surfer identify it's beneficial to fade?

Experience. It takes time to learn timing and the motion of the ocean. Sometimes you need to run from the curl. Sometimes you need to fade to the peak to let the curl set up. Surfing is similar to Chess, where you need to be a few moves ahead. Each moves sets up for the next down the line. Wingnut shows his competency in wave knowledge, timing, rail control, speed control, and most of all CONFIDENCE.

[pjgazele]

Yep. Despite advice of some others, I think I'm ready to try a shortboard. I mainly have been using my 9 footer in Oregon. And my last two trips, one to Nicaragua, other to Bali, I did just fine on an 8 footer. Now, let's just say I'm going to give a shortboard more than just try, but rather going to purchase one and add to my quiver and try to use for say next two years. And I want to get something that may have good resell value in case I discover later I made a mistake. An all a rounder for a tall person. I'm 6'3", 175 lbs. What shortboards come to mind then that might fit the bill?

[waikikikichan]

Do you mean an actual high-performance Short board or Short-ER board ? You did the 9 and 8, so the next short-ER board would be 7’2” -6’10” Hybrid or Big Fish, wouldn’t you think ?
But if you’re dead set on a Short board, Hypto Krypto’s are quite popular on many forums.

[pjgazele]

Likely a shorter board, but something given my height/weight I can eventually duck dive with. Heard a lot about the Hypto Kryptos too.

[pmcaero]

Wow, that video not only shows no-paddle take off but also shows fading. How does the surfer identify it's beneficial to fade?

it's decided solely on whether someone is splitting the peak with you, so that you can yell at them to get off your wave.

[Lebowski]

As has been mentioned above, you don't need to paddle for 30ft to catch a wave on a longboard. When you see people doing that it's usually to catch a marginal wave (nowhere near breaking) that is not very steep, so they need to effectively move closer to the beach to be able to catch it.

Don't be tempted to go too short. You'll be amazed at the paddling difference between a 9ft longboard and a 6ft shortboard. One glides over the water making paddling out back and around a breeze. The other is more like ploughing through water and is far more exhausting. Plus as dtc mentioned, there might be a 30ft margin on a longboard where it's possible to catch a specific wave. That margin on a shortboard might be 5ft.

[pjgazele]

Waikikikichan, DTC, and others - if I feel I'm ready then to drop down from a mini-mal (I'm putting my thoughts of getting an 8'0" Bing Collector in that category), I often get confused between what represents a good hybrid, say in the 6'10" to 7'2" range, and an intermediate, all around shortboard, sized up. With some of the highly rated and discussed boards out there, such as Firewire Greedy Beaver, Hayden Hypto Krypto, Firewire Helium Evo, and others, what is the difference really between me going for a longer shortboard vs. a conventional hybrid? You say Hypto is more of shortboard style, but I can get this board up to 7'0", so is it really a hybrid?

Maybe someone could point out a couple of good all-around hybrids, and couple of good all-around shortboards that you can get in the upper 6' range - maybe 7' - and explain the key difference(s) between the two classes?

And if power is something I think I adequately got down right now, and I'm still working on portioning and timing in my 3' - 7' Oregon waves, between the two classes of boards mentioned above, which might be better for someone stepping down from an 8' board?