'Go For It' or 'Your Too Eager'?

[CSAWS]

Hi - I know this has been talked about in many prior threads but I am about to pull the trigger on my third board...thinking I am going to get the Super Fish 4 in 7-6. I am 6-3 and 225 lbs, 46, athletic.

Been surfing for 7 or 8 months and go almost daily. I am decent on my 9-6 long board (catch many waves, can bottom turn both ways, paddle it well, etc.) and its a great board but I notice its hard to catch steeper waves, especially when our sets get over the 3-4' mark. the break i surf is a beach break/sandbars.

Things I am thinking about - the 8-0 has 65 liters and the 7-6 has 54 - will 11 liters make that much of a difference? my long board is mid-70s so its definitely different but I am leaning towards the 54 liter board and just spending the time need to learn how to paddle/ride it.

Duck Diving - is this possible with a board this big? probably not, given even at 7-6 and 54 liters, its still a log when compared to a short board.

I guess I am just back-and-forth as to the 8-0 vs the 7-6 but leaning towards the 7-6 and just dealing with the challenge. any advice is appreciated.

Thx for reading!

[tomthetreeman]

There are much more experienced and knowledgeable folks here, but my experience in 5 months of surfing is going from a 9' epoxy Bic to an 8' foamie to a 7'8" funboard. I'm 6'1", 185, in good shape. Surfers that know me have recommended a 6' fish for a more high performance board, but I haven't tried it. It's all I can do to get into waves consistently with the 7'8". I have shoulder injuries, so you might be better suited to drop board size sooner, but what I think I'm learning is that it's about wave recognition and positioning more than paddling... My advice would be to try a funboard shape in the 8' range with good volume first. Just my dos centavos.

[oldmansurfer]

I went from a 9'6" board to an 8 foot board and immediately regretted my decision however after a few hours on the board it was all good. The shorter board isn't going to help you catch bigger steeper waves however it might be easier once you catch them. I have 3 boards that I ride from time to time. My main board is 8 foot that same board that i wished for a little while that I hadn't dropped a foot and a half in length is the one I use mostly and it is the most versatile board but maybe I am just more comfortable with it. All my boards are too big to duck dive but I do a duck dip or half duck dive with them. You can try this on your 9'6" as well but what you do is grab the nose and shove it under water, I basically kind of do a handstand. the board won't go all the way under water but I can get my head and shoulders under and then the wave hits the back half of the board and my body and as it pushes the board down I pull the nose up. I find this technique very useful for going through broken waves. So my advice is the 8 footer. I am 6'2" 215 pounds and starting to get in shape at 64 years old. As far as catching bigger steep waves, number one is you have to commit and give it your all, if you are intimidated by the wave and paddle timidly you won't be catching many waves. The other thing is you need to be deep enough in the lineup and if you are scared by the waves then you might hang on the shoulder and it might be very difficult to catch there. Watch where the other surfers go. In wicked shorebreak I often paddle before the wave gets to me because once the waves starts to lurch up it seems like you can't even get moving forward at all and you need to be at the peak because the peak helps you get into the wave earlier (depending on the break)

[dtc]

Normally I wouldn’t have particular concerns about someone competent on a 9ft board dropping to a 7’6; and the superfish 4 looks pretty reasonable as a choice.

However you are 225lbs so a lot heavier than many surfers. As such, a 54l board isn’t as big for you as it is for others

Nonetheless, I think you want the 7’6, realise it may require you to undergo a bit of a transition and are prepared for that. So I say buy the 7’6 and keep the longboard in case you realise you have over reached (ie go back to the long board for a few more weeks or months and then try again)

As old man says, a shorter board won’t make catching bigger waves easier. In fact, on larger waves most people actually go for a bigger board to get in earlier and paddle faster. But the 7’6 superfish should be fine - it won’t be easier than the longboard, but it will be you (and not the board) that is the cause of any problems

[waikikikichan]

its a great board but I notice its hard to catch steeper waves, especially when our sets get over the 3-4' mark. the break i surf is a beach break/sandbars.

1) Could you elaborate more on " it's hard to catch steeper waves" ? Do you mean it doesn't go down the face quick enough ? Or is the paddle speed not right ?

2) 9'6" are usually more classic 50/50 railed with big square tail. Just going to a "high performance" / Progressive 9'0" you would see a big difference in ride ( and paddle ).

3) 2 feet jump down in size is 2 much.

[Lebowski]

On your 9'6, you shouldn't (need to) be catching waves when they're very steep. You need to paddle a little further out and catch it as early as possible. This is one of the joys of a longboard. You can catch waves before you'd even begin paddling on a shortboard.

Even on very dumpy, quick breaking waves it's still easier to get in and get a good ride on a longboard. Waves that jack up quickly, timing is very important and you have to be in just the right spot to take off. This is about skill and knowledge of the break. If you try to take off when the wave is already vertical then obviously you're going to have a difficult situation so the answer is to catch the waves earlier.

If you can't catch them earlier then the problem lies with a lack of paddle strength and/or poor positioning. Adding a shorter board to the mix will just make things even harder.

Of course, if your aim is to ride shorter boards in the future then go for it by all means, but to me it sounds like the solution lies with you and not the board.

[CSAWS]

Thanks for the comments so far, very much appreciated!

Yeah, my original comment on catching more hollow/steep waves definitely related to timing...sometimes they break earlier or i am misjudging the speed of the wave (not as often any more but it still happens)...in either case, what happens is the nose of the board is under water on the face and i have to try and push the tail down to pop it out then try and recover from that one extra step before i am up.

i have heard you can take off at an angle on a long board to help solve that problem. for sure. I also know that my timing can be off...all fair points. But, i have also heard that a shorter board can give you a little more room to manvuer b/c the nose doesnt go under the wave.

Plus, a personal goal is to go faster and start doing top turns, cut backs, etc. my understanding is that a shorter board will generally do those things easier than a longer board.

Thanks again for all the feedback!

[Lebowski]

The issues you talk about above are all due to a lack of skill and experience, not restrictions caused by the board. Trust me when I say that a different board won't sort those issues and will actually magnify them in some cases. Paddling becomes slower and more tiring, take off's must be on a more critical part of the wave otherwise you'll miss it, the board will be more succeptible to bogging on turns if you're not in the right place.

A shortboard is easier to turn in the same way that a fencing sword is easier to swing than a broadsword. But it doesn't magically give you those turning skills. 90% of a surfer's turning success is in knowing where to be on the wave in order to turn without bogging, losing speed etc. A shortboard has less margin for error because if you don't have speed or aren't riding a powerful part of the wave then it will bog and your ride will be over. Your longboard has a larger margin for error and its float and momentum will allow less than perfect turns on sloppy sections of wave.

Again, buy it if you want but just manage your expectations. It won't give you skills you don't have and it moves the goalposts somewhat.

[oldmansurfer]

I hear of beginners having that problem of burying the nose while paddling on a takeoff. I have never had that problem so no experience but from this forum it seems to be related to not enough paddle power. When you paddle and the wave catches you before you get enough speed the tail is lifted and this shoves the nose underwater or so I hear. Something that might help with this if the problem is you are just out of position a bit is to angle your board so you aren't going straight toward the beach. If the problem is you aren't paddling well enough this will make it slightly harder to takeoff but it lessens the effect of the wave lifting the tail of your board. Whatever turns you can do on your longboard at least the higher speed ones will be easier to do on a shortboard. But as far as learning to do turns you still have to learn to do them so it won't help in that aspect.

I used to surf long ago and quit for 12 years. I got overweight and out of shape and when I decided to learn again I started on a longboard although originally I learned on a shortboard. I was heavier and out of shape both requiring extra flotation. I only surfed 20 to 30 minutes every other week so it was slow learning but I kept progressing with the longboard. Eventually I was doing top turns and cutbacks and riding steep waves. I got to a point however that I started to feel the weight of the longboard as I turned. This was well after I learned to do all the turns you want to do plus I was learning others. It's called the baseball bat effect. You can feel the weight of the nose as you are turning. That was when I got a shorter board. If you can't turn you won't be able to turn a shortboard as well and it will be more difficult to catch waves with on a shortboard which will slow down your learning curve also.

[jaffa1949]

The tail lift and nose bog is because you are not matching the speed of the steeper wave, youwill be even more poorly served by a shorter board. You just won’t have the float in your boat to achieve wave speed, lots more nose diving and lip launches.
You are lacking the levels of skill if you haven’t locked down an angled take off yet! Brutal assessment i know but at your weight and size and skill short is not answer!

[CSAWS]

again, i do apreciate all the comments

without sounding defnsive, i actually can turn my long board both ways (so i can do front side and backside turns)...turning the board is something i feel like i am proficient at

also, the nose bogging only happens one out of 15 or 20 waves...i know why it happens and i have gotten much better at paddling at the right time so i am not standing still and the wave is crashing on me when i am trying to get up...again, not trying to be defensive here...i do catch 95% of the waves i am trying to catch with my long board

i guess i just want to try and go faster and get a board that turns quicker...that does not mean i cant turn or catch waves on the board i have now...i am just trying to decide if a 7-6 is too small for me vs an 8-0 which has more volume...i am going to flip a coin!!

Cheers!

[jaffa1949]

I speak for myself , definitely not offering disrespect, I weigh 220lb so I know the difference in paddle weight for me. I surfed pipeline years ago on a 9ft 6 inch board, would be seriously challenged now at 68 but I can tell you that board fitted then. As for speed again that is determined by the riders skill in finding the sweet spot on the board of anylength and matching it to the power spot on the wave face.

Please go 8ft , or to seriously evaluate for yourself see if you can try both.

BTW I often overtake guys on short boards who drop in and cannot generate speed.

[oldmansurfer]

Well ok so flip a coin and see what you get and let us know how it goes

[waikikikichan]

in either case, what happens is the nose of the board is under water on the face and i have to try and push the tail down to pop it out then try and recover from that one extra step before i am up.

You need to TRUST your board and wave. You need to learn the motion of the ocean. By you "trying" to push the tail down to help the nose pop out is OPPOSITE of what you need to do. You are slowing down ( making your board un-hydrodynamic ) at the very moment it needs the most glide speed. AS the wave steepen, the nose will pop out on its own if you keep up the momentum. TRUST the board and look down the line. Looking at the nose going under, keeps you in the moment. You need to be looking moves ahead.

[waikikikichan]

i have also heard that a shorter board can give you a little more room to manvuer b/c the nose doesnt go under the wave.

Plus, a personal goal is to go faster and start doing top turns, cut backs, etc. my understanding is that a shorter board will generally do those things easier than a longer board.

Again what is wrong with the nose going under ? Look at any surf video and see how often the nose DOES go under yet the rider makes it. My friend order her custom board specifically asking for a lot of nose rocker "so she doesn't pearl". End result........... her board pushes so much water she can't catch waves.

If your current 9'6" is a 50/50 rail single fin I can understand your frustration. Going to 9'0" 2+1 fin setup will help a lot. But you seem hell bent on getting a 7'6" from "what you heard" advice. But that advice didn't come from those chiming in on this post. Get the 8'0"

[CSAWS]

so after much debate...I flipped the coin...going with the 8-0 (i didnt really flip a coin though)

I guess the only other question is the epoxy version or the resin version...dear God, another debate...lol

from what i understand, epoxy slides on the water better but with resin you can feel the wave better...i am not good enough to notice the difference...i also heard epoxy floats better...that may or may not be the case but thats what my friend told me who's been surfing for 20+ years

[jaffa1949]

Get the epoxy , for only two reasons, lighter, and more floaty three reason slightly more durable .

I read through your 18 posts, I notice that you’ve come down from a 10ft soft top. And you are thoroughly stoked, great, you‘ve talked about going out on bigger days and 30 knot offshore winds, ( perhaps newbies licence ?).

I would like to see video ( call a friend help here) to help you with your positioning on the board for paddling and when you have caught the wave your positioning across the face.

It is quite a a revelation to see video of your surfing, I know most of us have been surprised at the difference between what we thought we were doing and what we were actually doing! Some of my first viewings of myself were not pretty!
Help us to help you!

[CSAWS]

sounds like a homework assignment for me...I am on it...we are supposed to get some swell this week so I will try and get some footage...thx!

[Lebowski]

I guess the only other question is the epoxy version or the resin version...dear God, another debate...lol

from what i understand, epoxy slides on the water better but with resin you can feel the wave better...i am not good enough to notice the difference...i also heard epoxy floats better...that may or may not be the case but thats what my friend told me who's been surfing for 20+ years

Just for your future knowledge....

Epoxy IS resin.

One type of board uses polyurethane foam for the blank and then polyester resin with glassfibre to make it watertight and give it strength.

The other type uses expanded polystyrene foam for the blank and then epoxy resin with glassfibre. This is because polyester resin melts polystyrene foam.

The expanded polystyrene foam (EPS) has a greater air content I believe and is therefore lighter and slightly floatier than PU. In my experience any strength difference is negligible.

Since you're a big boy I'd probably go with the EPS/epoxy version.

[Big H]

I’m late to the party, but at 47 years old, relative newbie (4 years surfing now) and 95kg now I can relate to your situation.

You will not be able to duck dive either choice. Learning to get out back on boards that can’t be duckdiced is a skill and a valuable one in that when and if you ever surf shorter you have developed the savvy to think your way out back rather than just charging into the teeth of the break.

I am not much of a fan of boards like that 7.6 at our size....for me it is a tweener, doesn’t get you in early enough for any appreciable advantage but just as unwieldy as a longer board without the paddle benefits to be able to race out back between waves. For me I have found better to be shorter and lower volume or longer and higher volume....the between size is the worst of both worlds for me.

I have an 8’2” fungun that is super thick (could be 4” thick thru the middle, not sure!) and a 9’2” epoxy performance longboard that is foiled out with a lot of rocker (for a longboard). I have a few others as well but when I compare either of these (which i both surf as 2+1’s) to my 50-50 railed single fin 10’4” (yeah that’s right!) they are nimble, wobbly performance vehicles. BUT they have more in common with each other than do boards I have that are shortboards ( react dramatically to body arch when catching a wave). Point being, I categorize boards into big and small, have no place in my quiver for mediums, and have found when it comes to developing skills on bigger boards that bigger is better. You may not yet have discovered the magic that happens when you move around on a board, how the board responds to going to the nose or backing up to the tail, for over the fin. It is going to take more time than you have invested to date, but learning about how a 10 ft board can feel half the size because you surf off the tail is mind blowing if you have been standing somewhere around the middle and only trimming your turns.

If you want to learn to surf, stay big for awhile at your size and age. I am hyper athletic...have been superlative in all physical activities my whole life (broke my wrist in the 10th grade - street fight.....was the cleanup punch so was the winner and loser) and had to drop wrestling in 10th grade (start of season - varsity) and after 10 weeks in a cast walked on mid season to the swim team (winter sport like wrestling in HS in the NE US) and on the first practice had a qualifying swim for the next meet and took the 100m freestyle varsity spot from some senior (and never swam a day on a swim team in my life). I also used a skateboard as my primary transportation thru my teen years and learned to surf here in Bali on big fast and hollow waves that will break your jaw if you get it wrong (another story).

Again, to the point, in spite of being super athetic and having a skating background ingrained from youth, it took me three years of surfing large, medium and small boards until something clicked and it started to flow. I attribute a great deal of that to continuing to use a longboard intermittently while experimenting with other boards. Smaller boards have allowed me to learn alliteration, but the essence of surfing, learning to read the wave, tap into its power and to react to how it shapes itself when you are on the faciface; that I learned from my longboards.

Honest recommendation I would have had for you is to carry on with the longboard another year before considering anything else. Learn to fade takeoffs, cutback, drip knee, unglue your feet and move up and down the board in relation to the wave and walk at you wish to do. Learn how to paddle, position, get out back again like Lebo said when you are caught inside with a big board and it is nothing but pain on the way all across the horizion.

I am 100% Behring trying different boards. The grass is not always greener, At 8 months for me you still should be on a longboard with your frequency for another year minimum. All the reasons you have whether it is being able to turn, generating speed, riding hollow waves all can be sorted on a longboard, which for your age, skill, WEIGHT is what is needed. Figure out skills on a ongboards and you can translate to shorter and more maneuverable boards. Those shorter boards don’t move themselves and in my experience, the way to learn to move shorter boards and to learn to tap into the wave and respond and ride each unique shape you get up on is to develop that ability on longboards.


BTW, paddle and body position/posture is the key. Whatever you do now in a normal seah, push yourself to do twice as much if you want to move forward.