Surfing Waves

I'm am average beginner who's had a few lessons (7 I think) on an 8' foam board catching broken waves. I can now stand most of the time and am starting to turn. I now plan to practise what I've learnt to get slowly better at all the skills, and I understand that the progression from this is to learn how to paddle out and catch unbroken waves, which I'm looking forward to learning. What I've been pondering is when most people tend to move off a foam board onto a hard board, like I see more experienced surfers using? I have no ambition at all other than to have fun, and foam boards are super cheap to rent, which I like, but I was just pondering at what point one starts to 'outgrow' a soft board and one could progress further on something else? With other sports that I've done there usually gets to a point where you're good enough to move on to something more fun and capable, which you then usually stay on for a few years - that's the point most people stop renting and buy something. The guides I've read seem rather vague. Thanks!

Hi 77, you have the right attitude, enjoying the fun in surfing.
Perhaps a way to go would be to buy a good foam board similar or better than what you rent. At least the same length, learn beach traffic , paddling out catching green waves and developing your skills.
A lot of reasonable foam boards are fun and inexpensive.
The time of when you go hard will be when you start to get adventurous in what you are trying to do.

Please though, post pictures of the styles of board you are considering for an upgrade then we can advise you.

Maybe a comment of your home beach might tailor that advice further.

People have gotten barrelled on softies at Pipeline. You can do bottom and top turns on softies and have a Lot of fun. I think you just will reach a point where you get curious to surf hard boards, and will soon enjoy their higher speeds and better agility. As softies are perfect to still have some fun on very small days, I also considered adding one which could then be used by friends to fool around, too.

Thanks. From what you're saying it sounds like a foamie is the beginner/intermediate board I was wondering about, which is great for me as they're so cheap to hire that I'd probably never buy one.

The reason for me asking is that I've been windsurfing a few years, and in that sport everyone starts on wide 180-200L boards (we measure boards by their volume) and small 3-4 metre squared sails without battens. After 3-6 months of windsurfing, everyone (without exception) moves down to a 140-150L board and up to a 5-6m sail, and nobody uses the beginner kit anymore; it's almost like a different sport once you step up. Most people will stay on that kit for 2, 3 or even 5 years. Because of this progression, everyone rents for the beginner stage for 3-6 months and then most people buy that second board - I'm still sailing mine after 3-4 years with no plans to change. The reason for my post was that I was wondering if there was an equivalent in surfing, whereby most people outgrow the foamies so rapidly that nobody buys them, and then there's another level beyond that which sees most people through the next few years. From what you're both saying though, beginner equipment in surfing isn't quite as unique to beginners; it seems that the first board you try could see you through the first few years at least?

Do what you enjoy so if you enjoy the foamie stick with it but if you are curious about hard boards rent one and see how it goes (around the same size as the foamie). It is possible that a wavestorm may bring you pleasure for years or not and some people once they get a longboard (hard) they stick with it for the rest of their life or they may want to try new stuff. You set your own goals and your own pace. Different people enjoy and achieve different levels of surfing. The end product is a longboarder or a shortboarder or both or a big wave surfer or ???other possibilities... and then skill levels vary to a great degree even after years of surfing. Some people are like perpetual beginners. they just enjoy going out once in a while to ride whitewater straight into the beach.

I know that situation. We have more wind than waves and i have been a windsurfer for more than 30 years. Once i enjoyed riding shorter boards (around 100l), i never wanted to go longer again, so i rather stayed on the beach if there was not enough wind for the biggest (7.2) of my 4 sails. I could not afford owning two boards. Others did not mind, took longer boards and enjoyed the calm days of what i called "stand up sailing"



I see the same in surfing. Some people seem to rather stay on the beach than taking longer boards if waves are small. Some others will just take their longboard and enjoy it. Key is to have fun.

Thanks guys. Whilst my primary ambition is just to have fun, I certainly want to eventually be able to catch green waves and do some turns etc. I can't ever see me in anything over head high waves on a shortboard, mainly due to confidence but also my age!

Good to hear from another windsurfer Oldie My 140L board is a bit big for windier days if I'm honest, but I'm not desperate to trade up because I'm only allowed one board and I go out weekly in all weathers, which where I live means 8-10 knots most of the time, so my board is perfect for what I use it for. I was just curious if surfing was similar; so whether beginner surfers get to a point where they want to ditch the learner board asap and buy a board that'll last them years.

Often beginners want to shortboard so they want to ditch the longboard if they learned on one. Some people rather longboard anyway so they keep at it. One of the common things we hear is "I can't even catch a wave because I bought a top of the line pro style shortboard after surfing a longboard, is this normal or is something wrong with this board?" or something like that. So it really depends on what you wish to do. The problem is that longboards are much more forgiving to a beginner, they are easier to paddle, easier to catch a wave, easier to popup on and you have a wider range of area that you can lineup at and still catch a wave. A shortboard is more difficult to paddle, more work to catch a wave with, trickier to popup on, and you have to be in the exact right place to catch a wave or you won't catch it.

I've definitely got no interest in a shortboard. I was merely wondering when a beginner progresses from a foamie to a hard board, like the Fish, Mini-Mal etc that board guides mention.

Beginner77 wrote:I've definitely got no interest in a shortboard. I was merely wondering when a beginner progresses from a foamie to a hard board, like the Fish, Mini-Mal etc that board guides mention.

It really is a how long is a piece of string? question.

I suggest look at all the foamies available where you are, post pictures and we can help you choose.
Rent a hard board similar in size to what you have been riding have a go and see.
Doing will answer some of your questions.
Where do you surf?

The progression varies from surfer to surfer based on desires, motivation, athleticism, time available, surf available (and probably age as well). Not to mention that height and weight also change this equation. It's extremely variable. Since you are wondering you should rent a longboard the same length as your foamie and see if you enjoy it. If you do it's time to move on if not stay with the foamie. Originally I learned on a shortboard and never had to switch styles or size of boards but apparently that doesn't happen much. Most people learn on a longboard and go down in size from there but to keep from challenging yourself too much you should limit the size difference to a foot or less preferably 6 inches unless you can tolerate challenges then you can try to do more. But first try a hard board about the size of your soft board. It will most likely be a little more difficult to catch waves but easier to ride them.

I took one introductory group lesson on a foamie then bought a beat up second hand longboard (9'3") and learned on that....I've since rented foamies occasionally when at the beach without a board and found them a lot of fun and easy to surf in small waves. If you live somewhere with a Costco they apparently stock affordable foamies...later on they can be sold again; always a demand for secondhand foamies. I was out in 1.5OH waves last week and there was a tourist (pale and sunburnt) shredding on a foamie.....steep drops, cutbacks, off the lips, floaters.....he was obviously very experienced but the board wasn't holding him back much.

Beginner77 wrote:The reason for me asking is that I've been windsurfing a few years, and in that sport everyone starts on wide 180-200L boards (we measure boards by their volume) and small 3-4 metre squared sails without battens. After 3-6 months of windsurfing, everyone (without exception) moves down to a 140-150L board and up to a 5-6m sail, and nobody uses the beginner kit anymore; it's almost like a different sport once you step up. Most people will stay on that kit for 2, 3 or even 5 years. Because of this progression, everyone rents for the beginner stage for 3-6 months and then most people buy that second board - I'm still sailing mine after 3-4 years with no plans to change. The reason for my post was that I was wondering if there was an equivalent in surfing, whereby most people outgrow the foamies so rapidly that nobody buys them, and then there's another level beyond that which sees most people through the next few years.

Question:
1) In Windsurfing, how do you get moving or what gets you onto a wave ?
2) In Surfing, how do you get moving or what gets you onto a wave ?
3) In Windsurfing, How often do you collide with others when riding a wave ?
4) In Windsurfing, How times did you repair dings on your board ?

I'm not trying to make a direct comparison with windsurfing, perhaps it was a bad analogy because it's too close to surfing; I realise the two are different. I was just referring to the fact that in many sports you start on beginner equipment and then progress, and I wondered what that progression was (i.e. what comes after a foamie) and when it tends to take place. I realise that age, flexibility, ability etc are all variables and it gets complicated, so instead of that can of worms I was thinking of simply when you know as an individual based on how you're getting on and what you're doing.

I'd rather not give details of where I surf I'm afraid, I've been a victim of online bullying before that got pretty freaky and it's made me very wary. It's not you, it's the other people reading this (as it was in that case). Conditions are variable at the three locations I go to and can be anything from 0.5 metre up to 2 metres. Obviously at the moment I'm in the white water, but soon I'll start having a go at green waves, and obviously they'll be at the lower end of that range. I presume I'll then start moving up to larger waves and starting to perfect my turns etc - I was just wondering where boards come into that. I'm currently using standard rental 8' foamies.

waikikikichan wrote:Question:
1) In Windsurfing, how do you get moving or what gets you onto a wave ?
2) In Surfing, how do you get moving or what gets you onto a wave ?
3) In Windsurfing, How often do you collide with others when riding a wave ?
4) In Windsurfing, How times did you repair dings on your board ?

Well since you won't step up and answer the questions, I'll take my best guesses. You can correct me if I am wrong.
1) The WIND propels the windsurf board. The wind is the motor.
2) The surfer needs to PADDLE to get the board moving. YOU are the motor.
3) Usually 3 to 5 Windsurfers don't go on the same wave, in surfing it is. At some beginner surf spot 10-20 surfers go for the same wave.
4) Banging rails, fins across the deck, Boards coming backwards, etc. happens in surfboarding. So a lot of dings, glass shatters, sunken fin plugs to fix on hard boards. I don't know how often Windsurfers get dings.

So to answer your question " when can a beginner progress from a sponge board " ?
1) When he can master paddling and catching the wave on his current board.
2) When he can control his board to avoid other and progress beyond basic maneuvers. ( when he is actually surfing the board not just riding the board )
3) When he can stop banging into others, walls, parking lot asphalt and at the showers.

Soft boards are great not only because they're safer for you but also safer for others.
They're boxy and floaty plus they give good grip for your toes to sink in to.
They don't give dings and don't get dings ( but can be sliced by a fin )
If you drop it at the showers, no worries. When you learn to deal with wind and tight stairwells, then get a hard board.
They're forgiving because they flex and absorb the wave's imperfections ( while if on a hard board you might get bucked off )

As for the progression: learn on 3 feet over your head, basics on 2 feet over, carve and venture to bigger steeper on 7'6" to 6'6", in the 6'ish your in the shortboard / Fish realm. When you're ready for each step..... it's up to you. It's not a race to get on a shortboard ( which many newbies think it is )

That's great, thanks. Sorry for missing the questions, I assumed they were rhetorical.

Once you have graduated from the foam board, a longboard is the logical board to progress to. I'm not sure of your age, weight, height, or fitness level, but for most folks a 9' all around longboard with a 2+1 fin setup is a good choice for its versatility. Even if you progress to surfing higher performance boards, a full size longboard can fill a spot in your board quiver when the waves are small or for just having more fun with less work.

Assuming you weigh between 150-200lbs, a 9' x 23" x 3" with approximately 70L of volume makes for a good starting point. Other features of the board like the tail, rocker, or fin setup will be depend on the type of waves you surf.

This is just my advice, others on the forum have done just fine surfing smaller 7-8' fun boards and mini-mals.

Thanks very much, I'm getting a bit of an idea now. Board handling on dry land should be fine for me as I windsurf and SUP at least once a week from April to December and have been for some years now (our SUPs are 12'6", so quite unweildy). From what's said above (by waikikikichan), the limiting factors seem to be practical ones, so I' guessing that by the time most people are fully aware of others around them in the water and controlling their board well enough to keep themselves and others safe, then technique wise a hard board would offer more? I'm extremely cautious around other people, so you needn't worry about me stepping up too soon on this front; I'd be mortified if I hurt someone with a board.

Thanks Namu for the advice. I'm 1.77m & 70kg (154lbs and 5.10'), so I'm guessing your figures are about right.

I used to have a Mistral racing class windsurfing gear with 12'+ board so I know what you mean by board handling is not a problem! I can personally attest that the above suggestions really work. I stayed in a 8' foam board for 15-20 sessions until I can catch unbroken waves and not frail all over the place, then moved onto a 9' longboard pretty much the same dimensions as Namu have mentioned. I'm lighter and shorter than you but probably less fit back then. I still have both boards though (and more). Some of us keep most of the boards if they work for us in certain situations, hence the quiver of boards. Foam boards are great for bad conditions when you are worried about dinging your hard board. Or when the waves are so small but you feel like you want to just play around. Or let your friends and families try out surfing. Also it's a good idea to have a back up board for when you need to repair your hard surfboard unless you are ok with not surfing for a week or two each time the board gets a ding.

Buy a foamie. And after you break it consider your options. I broke two foamies before switching to a hard one