Beginner hollow wave board

[Jester]

Haha benjl I groaned then I laughed then I shook my head but it still made me giggle! We shall be brothers of the board and carry our torqs on high!

Thanks for the vote of confidence dtc! You've given me a new angle to think about just when I thought I had it all sussed! Would like the challenge if it extends the fun on the board. It's been ages since I was on the 7'6 so I'm gonna go hire one again I think to see how it goes, or even a 7'2 if I can find one, I'm not expecting proficiency but I'll know if it's doable I'd say. Got a while yet before I buy but I must admit I'm itchin' to throw my money at someone!!

[Jester]

Yikes!! Tried the 7'4 in very small waves today.. Could barely sit on the thing!! Paddling is good though, that's one plus.. Pop up was horrible and would take a LOT of learning to get used to!! Seriously back to beginner level. Having said that they were tiny tiny waves! Not so sure about the 7'2 at the mo dtc, unless its just something you get used to?! Wish the waves had been bigger to assess it properly. Was like Bambi on ice today.

[benjl]

Hey Jester

Which 7'4 was it? Epoxy, PU, volume?
Jumping down a foot on any board will be quite different, especially if the waves were tiny tiny.
Maybe give it another try on a day with slightly different conditions just to see if your muscle memory picks up faster and progresses the second time before dismissing it?

Even an hour on my 7'2 and then going to my high volume 6'2 feels like I'm just flailing in the water for 30mins or so until I get the feeling back. After doing it a couple of times my body starts to remember the transition and speeds up a bit each time. Likewise with going back up in length- I bet your 8'4 will feel a bit strange for the first 10-15mins when you ride it again?

[Jester]

You were dead right benjl! I got on my 8'4 after in the same session and it felt less stable! Actually got quite used to the paddling and feel of the 7'4 under me. It was an old Pu that was chipped and dinged to hell lol. I'll take it out again some day that the waves are better at that beach no idea of the volume sorry but it was as light as a feather compared to my 72lr, which weighs the same as my car.

[benjl]

In that case, definitely still keep in mind the epoxy 7'2 or 7'6 Torq. Remember that their epoxy is rumoured to be about 10-15% more buoyant than PU (maybe more if its an old, chipped and dinged PU) so imagine if that same 7'4 you tried had 10-15% more float and ease of cruising!

I tried a mates 6'3 pu board the other day- It had almost identical dimensions, rocker and board profile to my normal epoxy 6'3 but in comparison it felt like paddling a brick! I definitely noticed it sat lower in the water and I had to paddle harder to get it to accelerate at the same speed that i can paddle on my epoxy board

[waikikikichan]

I just picked up this 7'0" to ride the beach breaks in Japan. ( plus my 9'0" doesn't fit in the small cars here ). Thought the Futures F6 fronts with F4 rears might be too much to push. I knew it would have a lot of drive. Yet surprisingly could break out the tail when needed.

[Jester]

That's a sweet lookin ride Waikiki!

[Jester]

Benj that's a good point! Though I didn't have a prob paddling, I did have a BIG problem popping up! Reckon with practice I might manage though!

[benjl]

That could also have something to do with bouyancy because if its less bouyant, when you push down on the chest area to pop-up, it would sink further in to the water so maybe you just didn't quite have the timing or muscle memory sorted for it yet? My 6'2 is only about 4L more volume than my 6'3 and especially thicker in the rails. Even swapping between these boards takes a few pop-ups to get the timing right and how it responds when you first stamp your foot down on the pop-up (and both of these are epoxy).

I imagine an 8'4 epoxy to 7'4 pu board would be a very different feeling with finding that sweet spot on the pop-up.

I can't wait to hear how you go on the 7'6 or 7'2 epoxy torq if you can find one!

[dtc]

Yikes!! Tried the 7'4 in very small waves today.. Could barely sit on the thing!! Paddling is good though, that's one plus.. Pop up was horrible and would take a LOT of learning to get used to!! Seriously back to beginner level. Having said that they were tiny tiny waves! Not so sure about the 7'2 at the mo dtc, unless its just something you get used to?! Wish the waves had been bigger to assess it properly. Was like Bambi on ice today.

Small waves are not great for shorter (even if mid length) boards - I don't know the physics, but they are much less stable than longboards in those conditions. I suspect its because they don't go as fast and have shorter rails, so don't get 'sucked into' the wave to create the stable platform you need. Up to (say) thigh or waist high, LBs are still better (if waves are under knee high I pretty much cant even catch them with my mini mal). But once you get to waist high and especially a bit bigger, the mid lengths show their benefits. So give things a go with slightly bigger waves.

Its possible that your pop up isn't quite perfect and whatever you are doing wrong is shown up with the shorter board (for example, you are a bit slow or pushing the board away from you or something). A bit LB might hide it - it may only be a minor thing. Or it might just be the wave.

If you are comfortable on an 8ft4, I think you can drop a foot in length. Obviously length is not everything - outline, rocker, construction material etc are very important. But if you are thinking of a Torq 7ft6, then the 7ft2 will be exactly the same in respect of those points and hence the only variable is length

However, don't go 7ft2 just because I said so! There is absolutely no problem going 7ft6 and surfing that for a year or 3 or 10; if you then decide you want to go shorter you can drop to a 7ft or 6f10 and have a fine range of boards for most conditions. There is no magic about that 4 inches (unless you have a short car).

The second board is the hardest to buy. The first board is easy - a longboard. The third board is a refinement of the second - a few inches shorter or a different nose or whatever.

However, the second is the one that is the biggest change - the 1ft or more drop in length, the move from LB shape to something narrower or more rockered or whatever. Its a hard decision - I ended up going to a shaper (well, used my indecision to give myself a birthday present of a shaped board). I was surfing a 9ft1 and he was trying to convince me to get a 7ft2; I insisted I wanted a 7ft6 or longer - a 2ft drop was very stressful to thing about! We compromised on a 7ft4 with some additional tail rocker. And ....he was right. After my first surf I knew I could have gone shorter (I'm sure it helped that I was buying a wide thick board - I wouldn't drop 2ft to a big boy shortboard).

Nonetheless, those few inches I can't imagine would have made much difference - or any difference probably at my level. You agonise about it, but whatever you buy will be a good board that will be suitable for many years.

Now years later I still surf this board and, if I want to go shorter, have a 6ft10 to use (haven't surfed my longboard for about 5 years, sad to say...). Whether you get a 7ft6 or a 7ft2 I suspect you will go the same way - surf it and enjoy it; and then pick up a slightly shorter board in a few years.

[oldmansurfer]

small waves have less force they put on a board and less hieght to use to gain speed so you are stuck with the planing speed of the board which longer boards have more of and they also have more contact with the small wave so it can exert more force on a longer board. Depending on the size if you are really good at turning then you can still surf small waves with a shortboard and do more than ride them in. Longboarders however can gain lots of speed on small waves with minimal turning. The equation changes as size goes up specifically on hollow waves, eventually the speed of the wave equals the planing speed of the long board and any faster and the longboarder will have a tougher time of it. Bigger still and more board is needed to just catch the wave and there is a tradeoff between performance and being able to catch a wave (just like there is for newbies trying to learn to surf.)

[oldmansurfer]

So I would guess around knee to waist high some shortboarders will be able to ride small tubing waves really well waist to head high and shortboarders rule but below knee high longboarders rule. If you are looking at huge waves then really long boards are needed or tow in (or being in exactly the right position.)

[Jester]

Its possible that your pop up isn't quite perfect and whatever you are doing wrong is shown up with the shorter board (for example, you are a bit slow or pushing the board away from you or something). A bit LB might hide it - it may only be a minor thing. Or it might just be the wave.

Think you could be right there DTC! I'm going to concentrate on my pop up a bit more and take that 7'4 out again this wkend, hopefully in bigger waves!

Gonna look out for an actual torq to test run too.. I'm in no rush to buy so will take my time before deciding between those magical measurements would be great to get used to a more shorty board so I'll have another string to my bow in future. I'm not giving up long boarding though. I actually love it but I'm super excited about a board that feels different too!! Will be great to have a board for different days, different waves and different vibes, depending how I feel!

[Jester]

OMS I felt that change in pace last wkend, the wave was much faster and more hollow, def didn't feel as mellow on my long board, everything was just way more 'critical' those conditions really showed up my lack of skill tbh, on previous waves on the longboard I had more time to adapt. All good learning though..its getting fed into the computer and just gotta wait before it spits out the results!!

[oldmansurfer]

Guys who are good at longboarding will make speed turns and extend the speed they get on a wave, but longboards are slower and more difficult to turn so then shortboarders who are good at turning will beat them in speed but shortboarders who can't turn might as well be riding a longboard if they want to go fast.

[jaffa1949]

If you cannot generate speed on whatever board , you are not able to surf at anywhere near a high level.
Turns and all the thing you do on a wave are, better performed with speed. Almost every failure in doing something is due to abrupt loss of speed , next comes misplacement of board and body in doing ( which usually spills speed) Often the optimum place to be for a turn can only be reached by generated speed.
The only real exception is pearling .

[Jester]

The pearls you're casting may yet turn me from being a swine of a surfer into something a bit better! I'm still very much a beginner guys so there's a huge lack of knowledge of what I'm actually doing out on the wave. First thought is WAHEYYYY, then after that is 'ah OK where do I wanna be' each wave is a big learning curve for me. At the mo on that bigger wave I didn't actually feel like I knew what I was doing, I couldn't react well because I was just more in survival mode. I did attempt a few trims to get high and swoop down but it was walling up pretty fast so I had to abort and get on my front food to speed away as the shoulder was literally on my shoulder! I'm sure when I get better that wave will be amazing to surf and give endless opportunities though! I know it!! I just don't have the skill yet to do it, but it'll come.

On the wave that was about 2ft lower I didn't really have to think at all..it just all flowed, I made some positive and clearly defined turns and was able to generate speed. The bigger wave was a bit more 'rabbit in the headlights'. Love that about surfing, there's always a next step just outside of your grasp..

[oldmansurfer]

Where I usually surf it's typically onshore beach break with double waves and sections and peaks all over the place. Learning to ride those waves well requires that you speed up and slow down on the same wave often. I am just getting good at the speeding up part but I could always improve however the slowing down part I still need to work at particularly reading the wave to know when to slow down. There is always more to learn.

[benjl]

Hey Jester

I decided to take a risk today in shoulder to head high + conditions and take out the torq 7'2 rather than my shortboard. In the line up, there was only me on a mid-size funboard, 1 guy on a longboard and about 30 shortboarders to paint the picture of what the waves were like.
I can now confirm that the board can definitely take some steep drops! My muscle memory also picked it up much faster this time and I was almost just straight in to it despite coming off my normal 6'3 which is nearly a foot shorter and a whole lot different with rocker and design.

Due to the way the waves were forming, they would often peak up really steep and hollow just at the moment when you need to make the drop so it was perfect conditions to test this forum question.
The first wave was about head high, I came so close to making the drop but just clipped the nose on the bottom of the wave from pearling and came off (but hey, not a bad attempt for first wave off my shortboard).

Second wave of about the same size and I nailed it! I'm actually quite surprised at how well this board took some steep drops to be honest. The nose doesn't have a lot of rocker and the mid section is flat as but there's a bit of rocker in the tail and with combined with the pin tail worked wonders!
From then on I pulled off all drops and did some great turns/waves on both my front and backhand. I also noticed on some waves at how much easier it was to get them than my shortboard and could also ride for ages, even on the small ones.
I nearly got properly barreled at one point on it too except for the wave lip ended up just smashing in to me rather than curling over

I would highly recommend giving the 7'6 and 7'2 a try, especially as the new models have about 5L more volume in each size than my model.
Can't wait to hear what you think!

[Jester]

Dude that's epic!!! Really excited for you it's funny coz you're coming from short to fun and I'm coming from long to fun.

I'm going to try a 7'2 tomorrow!! it's meant to be really weak waves but all I have left to decide is if I can handle it and then it's pick a colour time! Sadly that's actually important to me

Unfortunately it's not the torq that I'll get to try but it is another epoxy so similar, it will however be the torq I'll be buying.

Prob gonna pull the trigger tomorrow guys, wish me luck!!