Wave catching technique vs board types vs fitness

[BoMan]

Wow, that video not only shows no-paddle take off but also shows fading. How does the surfer identify it's beneficial to fade?

I fade my takeoff when I'm out of position and need to get closer to the peak. I slide near the curl then whip a turn the opposite way.

[oldmansurfer]

Sometimes when I am out of position I fade on the takeoff. Sometime in the last year I took off on a left where I was way out of position and so did a (right) frontside bottom turn to frontside off the lip cutting back to go left. Fun little thing, not sure if I ever did that maneuver before in my entire life. Sometimes I think I am in the right place but the wave breaks differently than I thought so I fade back to get into a spot with more power which allows me to do other turns. I think it's only been recently that I can make that instant judgement at the top of the wave as I popup because I am usually looking down the line not back at the breaking portion of the wave. I guess I look down the line and recognize there's nothing there so I look back at the breaking part of the wave. Generally I try to be where the wave is going to be steep and I will need to make a good bottom turn to keep on the wave so it's not often that I don't need to get some speed to keep from being passed by. I do more fade backs riding a wave than on takeoff.

[tomthetreeman]

To PJ’s question about boards, I feel like a class of boards is a class of boards. There may be some exceptions, but a (modern) shortboard is under 7’, as is a fish. Anything bigger and it’s just not going to perform the same in the water. So get something that is what it is, and go toward the bigger end of the range if you need the volume. Don’t get a 7’ fish, get a funboard or an egg, etc.

The grovelers and hybrids (greedy beaver, Lost RV, sweet potato, etc) are newer solutions that are works in progress it seems. I got some good advice from a friend. He said “Find a shape that gets you hot and bothered and go for it.” I think there’s some wisdom in that; as long as you have a clue about what has worked for you so far.

I think you should also sit down with a local shaper or someone with knowledge of your local conditions, and pick their brain. Maybe pick more than one brain. There’s a lot to learn!

Tom

[waikikikichan]

You say Hypto is more of shortboard style, but I can get this board up to 7'0", so is it really a hybrid?
Maybe someone could point out a couple of good all-around hybrids, and couple of good all-around shortboards that you can get in the upper 6' range - maybe 7' - and explain the key difference(s) between the two classes?

Answer: it's all MARKETING HYPE. A good surfer can ride any of those boards ( and even a sponge wavestorm ) equally as well. But a rider without the necessary basic skills will ride each board equally poorly. A 7'0" Hypto is marketed to a "want to be- don't want to be". 7'0" pointy nose boards would be, in this time and age, be called a Step-Up, Desert island, Big Guy shortboard. Walden makes the Mini Mega Magic which is a for a bigger guy looking for a Bigger Shortboard. But Walden also makes the Mega Magic for guys looking for a Shorter Longboard. The lines just get blurred of what is and what is not.
How about getting a 7'0"-ish big fish with a small swallow tail before going down to a true shortboard outline ?

[tomthetreeman]

WKK, the term is ‘Fat Man Sled’ lol!

[dtc]

It seems the more proper advice should be “before you shortboard, you must learn what it takes to get your board into the right position (including having paddling power), and have good technique to pop up and trim the line. And good way of practicing that for a beginner is to start with longboard to give you a higher rate of success of getting into right position to the wave.” Seems if you can do that fine with a longboard, you are likely ready to try a shortboard.

I see it slightly different. Surfing is an 'all or nothing' sport - you either catch the wave, pop up and surf the wave, or you don’t. There is no 'almost popped up' or 'almost caught the wave' (of course, once on the wave there are lots of 'almost did a cutback' kind of thing)
So you need to go from a beginner level of skills, (call it 'A') to actually catching the wave and surfing (call that 'B').

On a longboard, the distance between A and B is much closer than the distance between A and B on a shortboard. For example (numbers for example, not accurate), on a longboard you might get your position 85% right, your timing 85% right, your paddling 85% right and your pop up 85% right - and you will catch the wave and pop up.

On a shortboard, you might get yours positioning, timing and paddling 97% right, but your pop up 85% right - and you fall off.

This is why longboards are recommended for learners. Fitness is a factor but its far from the main factor. Its because getting from A to B is just much easier. On shortboards some people find the gap between A and B so great that they actually never develop the skills to get to B. Their pop up (for example) is stuck at 85% and they can never get it to the 95%, because to get to 95% they need to first actually do a pop up an feel how it works, and at 85% they never succeed so never get to the next level. And just because you can do that on a longboard doesnt mean you can do it on a shortboard - you might be hovering around the 90% success margin, which works fine for a longboard but will mean failure on a shortboard.

Once you are on the wave things are a bit more complex. Shortboards are 'easier' to turn, especially if you don’t have good technique. But longer boards allow you to maintain speed through turns and along the face, so you don’t bog them down as easily and fail the turn.

Anyway, onto 'hybrid' boards. The general consensus for Hyptos is that they are great boards for shorter boarders wanting to surf something 4 inches shorter than their standard shortboards. However, they are not great shortboards boards once above 6'4 ie they are not good 6'4 shortboard. They may well be good replacements for a 6'8 board, however.

In any case, if you wanted my suggestion on a reasonable hybrid that is probably quite a bit cheaper than a hypto or a firewire, I would look at the Torq boards - either the modfish (which isn’t really a fish, just swallowtail) or the Torq hybrid. Actually, the Torq modfun is almost a hybrid and is a pretty user friendly shape. There are, of course, many other manufacturers/shapers that can make you a board - see what someone local costs, its probably less than a hypto.

However I also suggest an egg board, rather than a hybrid.

There is no harm in buying or trying other boards. The more boards you surf the wider and more rounded your skills. So long as, of course, you can actually surf it.

[pjgazele]

Pretty sure I know what a big fish, small swallow tail is, but when it comes to some of the others like eggs and hybrids it seems they just get thrown in a bucket called the "in betweens", between a shortboard and longboard and it all gets confusing, especially if one is trying to find that "one board out there" that will be one of those keepers, hopefully. And isn't a Greedy Beaver an egg? A Helium Evo or a SeAxe a hybrid?

What about something like this? At 6'8" it has 46L.

https://bingsurf.com/collections/cypress

[dtc]

maybe we are getting a bit distracted by the names being given to the variations, since they arent fixed categories and what they mean varies from person to person. Basically a hybrid has a pointy-ish nose and quite rounded outline/curvy rails (so more of a shortboard shape but longer), while an egg has a more rounded nose and slightly straighter outline (so more like a longboard). Often hybrids have slightly more nose rocker and perhaps slightly thinner rails, but it varies so that isnt too much of a distinguishing factor.

Pointier noses and more curved outlines make for a more unstable board (but unstable = easier to turn) and perhaps less volume for a given length, although that again varies.

So if you look at the difference between a SeAxe and, say, the Firewire Addvance, you can see the difference.

Of course, there are multiple variations and boards that are in between. The helium is a bit of a mutant and doesnt quite fall into any category. Eggs can look the same as what others call mini mals eg the seAxe. the cypress might be a hybrid for many;m the greedy beaver isnt really either shape.

Anyway, I think all we are saying is that something with a slightly wider nose and slightly straighter rails will make the transition easier than a pointy nose with a curved outline.

Ignore the categories; look at the boards. Shape, rocker, tail, nose, volume etc. Do you like fat tails? Do you prefer wider boards or volume up front? Hard rails only at the tail or further up?

Possibly - probably - you dont know - which is totally fine, because you havent surfed boards like that. However, flip that around - if you dont know what you prefer, then there is really no way of knowing, regardless of the amount of research you do, whether the board you pick will be a keeper or not.

There are more conservative choices that probably will work out fine (Torq mod boards, SeAxe), as these are similar to the boards you have surfed to date, just shorter. And more 'radical' choices that you may love or hate (helium, for example).

So... if you really want to know and start building a quiver, buy a cheapish second hand board that look pretty good. Surf it, see what you think. If it works, you know that style works for you. If it doesnt, sell it and try again. By board 3 or 5, you will have a much better idea.

[waikikikichan]

if I feel I'm ready then to drop down from a mini-mal (I'm putting my thoughts of getting an 8'0" Bing Collector in that category),

So you are or are not riding the Bing Collector currently ? So what 8 footer are your riding ?

an intermediate, all around shortboard,SIZED UP. With some of the highly rated and discussed boards out there, such as Firewire Greedy Beaver, Hayden Hypto Krypto, Firewire Helium Evo, and others, what is the difference really between me going for a longer shortboard vs. a conventional hybrid? You say Hypto is more of shortboard style, but I can get this board up to 7'0", so is it really a hybrid?

When you SIZE UP a high performance shape that most surfers ride, say a 5'9", and make it into a 7'0" you get a Porsche Panamera. So basically a high performance car with 4 doors.

Likely a shorter board, but something given my height/weight I can eventually duck dive with.

Please don't put the cart in front of the horse. Get a board you can catch waves and surf as the priority. Still think it'll be hard to duck dive a 7'0" Hypto.

[gsseirik]

I went from a 7'3 minimal to a high performance shortboard...Years later I went to a surfcamp in Peniche and tried various ranges of NSP boards between 6'0 and 6'8. The rest of the stay I found that 6'4 was working fine for me. And I learned a lot more in that week, compared to several years back home with the expensive high-performance shortboard.

I still own the high performance shortboard today, but from what I now know about the waves at my homebreak and my ability, it's only usable to me behind a boat with a rope, or for kitesurfing.

Heres photo evidence

[waikikikichan]

tried various ranges of NSP boards between 6'0 and 6'8. The rest of the stay I found that 6'4 was working fine for me. And I learned a lot more in that week, compared to several years back home with the expensive high-performance shortboard.

Funny you say that, since I have the same exact 6'4" Fish but mine is orange ( not blue/green like your photo ). Mines got to be over 12+ Years old, no dings. I like it a lot for the beach breaks here in Japan.

20180113_3087640.jpg (42.15 KiB) Viewed 2170 times

20130823_843428 (1).jpg (25.52 KiB) Viewed 2170 times

[gsseirik]

Thats so cool waikikikichan! And you truly know how to use it:-)

[steveylang]

Please don't put the cart in front of the horse. Get a board you can catch waves and surf as the priority. Still think it'll be hard to duck dive a 7'0" Hypto.

And whatever you do, DON'T get a 7' Hypto!

I would get a board that is actually designed to be ridden at around 7' (or whatever board size you want) for your size. I owned a 6'8" Hypto for a little while (I am 5'10" 160lb), and it was way too floaty and provided none of the benefits that board is actually designed to provide.

I ride a 7' 46L mid length board now and really enjoy it.