What size foamie?

[WestTexSurf]

Probably more of the stabilizer muscles being used to keep my chest, head and legs up.

When I start sprinting I notice my board will turn or wiggle slightly left and right when I am pulling with each arm. Also the rails will dip a bit to the side while pulling with each arm. Is this a sign of bad technique? I do feel I am getting more speed but I don't want to reinforce bad practices.

Even trying to hold on with just your stomach muscles while paddling a 6 foot will be hard, rocking side to side, back and forth.

I warned you about that. Grabbing/Holding the board straight using you stomach/core muscles will come in time. That's why it's hard for beginners to paddle short(er) that don't have stability nose to tail.
As for the rails dipping, you just got to keep the torso "quiet" and only thing that moves is from the shoulder out.
Question: How many strokes Average does it take to cross the pool ?

I'm not sure. I'll keep count tonight, though i'm sure its not great since I've only been at it a week.

25 yards in about 29 strokes. Regular non-sprint stroke.

[RinkyDink]

I had seen that video on the side bar but never clicked it! Good find.

I'm glad you liked it. Hope it helps.

[dtc]

25 yards in about 29 strokes. Regular non-sprint stroke.

that seems quite high (meaning,..inefficient). how many strokes does it take you to freestyle 25yards? I'm thinking for most people its around 15-20; with no actual analysis ever done my gut feeling is that surfboard paddling should be no less efficient than swim paddling. Maybe i'm totally wrong on this!

On that point, surf paddling is at times quite similar to swimming ie if you are weaving back and forth on the board then its like having your legs swing around when doing freestyle. It creates drag (as you go side on) and wastes energy (as you are pushing sideways in part rather than forward).

If you want to get quite technical about it, google 'rob case' and watch some of his videos. But if you have had swim coaching, apply much the same principles (reach, catch etc). You can rotate slightly side to side vertically (ie up and down) but not horizontally.

[WestTexSurf]

25 yards in about 29 strokes. Regular non-sprint stroke.

that seems quite high (meaning,..inefficient). how many strokes does it take you to freestyle 25yards? I'm thinking for most people its around 15-20; with no actual analysis ever done my gut feeling is that surfboard paddling should be no less efficient than swim paddling. Maybe i'm totally wrong on this!

On that point, surf paddling is at times quite similar to swimming ie if you are weaving back and forth on the board then its like having your legs swing around when doing freestyle. It creates drag (as you go side on) and wastes energy (as you are pushing sideways in part rather than forward).

If you want to get quite technical about it, google 'rob case' and watch some of his videos. But if you have had swim coaching, apply much the same principles (reach, catch etc). You can rotate slightly side to side vertically (ie up and down) but not horizontally.

I'm sure its not at all efficient. Like said, only been doing it a week, haha. I'm self taught in lap swimming as well. I think I get about 18-19 strokes per 25 yards at moderate pace, but i haven't counted that in a while. I've been breaking out the go pro as well to analyze my form from the 3rd person as well.

How high should my nose be sticking out of the water? I'm thinking just barely, so the board is nearly flat on the surface?

[dtc]

Yeah, board flat with nose just above the water. You don't need to arch your back too much when general paddling, that can throw your stroke off/make it weaker (if you aren't used to it)

[WestTexSurf]

Yeah, board flat with nose just above the water. You don't need to arch your back too much when general paddling, that can throw your stroke off/make it weaker (if you aren't used to it)

Awesome thanks for the advice.

[WestTexSurf]

Yeah, board flat with nose just above the water. You don't need to arch your back too much when general paddling, that can throw your stroke off/make it weaker (if you aren't used to it)

This has helped a lot. I shaved off 8-9 strokes by keeping the nose barely above the water. Though I do feel like my sprint is taking a lot more strokes than my normal paddle. The sprint should be efficient in itself, but it's probably not going to be as efficient (so far as amount of strokes) as a relaxed paddle, right?

I'm kind of getting off topic from Surfboard advice....maybe I should start a new thread in the Lessons section eh?

[waikikikichan]

Where in comparison to the board is your hand when you're pulling back under the water ?

[dtc]

The purpose of a sprint paddle is obviously to get the board up to speed as quickly as possible. So you will take more strokes in a shorter period, but will go faster. A sprint stroke should also be a bit shorter reach forward and maybe a bit deeper - lose energy efficiency (in other words, expend more energy) in return for more power and faster stroke rate (which result in faster board speed)

A regular paddle stroke, on the other hand, you reach forward further, then stroke and glide for a bit then stroke and glide. But you wont be going all that fast.

There will actually be a point at which the amount you move forward from a sprint paddle is greater than the amount you move forward from a relaxed paddle ie you travel further per stroke (or use less strokes to go a set distance). But that occurs generally only when you are at a high speed and you maintain that top speed. So its still very energy inefficient. And if your stoke mechanics are flawed, then you are spending even more energy

its like run sprinting. If you run 100m sprint, your first few steps are short and fast and hard. Then you hit a point at which your stride (still fast and hard) propels you a big distance forward. So I happened recently to be reading about Usain Bolt on this very issue and his statistics are

first 10m - takes 11 strides; thereafter takes between 3.5 and 4 strides per 10m
first 10m - stride length is 1.4m; thereafter between 2.4 and 2.8m per stride

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl ... hk-36-149/

And at 2.4m+ per stride length, that is far further than anyone jogging will step. But joggers, even though each stride is shorter, can obviously maintain that stride for much further than 100m.

so...in short - you cant really compare sprint paddling with normal paddling; at the start of the sprint you will be paddling faster and harder for less return per paddle; but after you build momentum you will be going forward further per stroke. But only if you keep the momentum up - which uses lots of energy.

But I can say that if your sprint paddle is shallow and lots of splashing and bad hand positioning etc - you may well take a lot of strokes and not go very far very fast.

[WestTexSurf]

Where in comparison to the board is your hand when you're pulling back under the water ?

I'm not exactly sure what you mean. I stretch my hand out forward as much as possible and hold it out there straight ahead to carry some momentum. Then when pulling I try to keep my hand and forearm inline and pull under the board (I think I actually end up pulling along the rails). This is what my relaxed paddle looks like.

I think my Sprint is a bit more chaotic at the moment. I probably need to focus less on how fast I can dig with my arms (causing me to start and end strokes too early) and more on producing more power with those strokes more quickly.

Is this what you were asking for? I think I'll have my wife video me soon above and below the water line. I'll post it and brace myself for the fall out haha.

Thanks Waikikikichan.

[WestTexSurf]

The purpose of a sprint paddle is obviously to get the board up to speed as quickly as possible. So you will take more strokes in a shorter period, but will go faster. A sprint stroke should also be a bit shorter reach forward and maybe a bit deeper - lose energy efficiency (in other words, expend more energy) in return for more power and faster stroke rate (which result in faster board speed)

A regular paddle stroke, on the other hand, you reach forward further, then stroke and glide for a bit then stroke and glide. But you wont be going all that fast.

There will actually be a point at which the amount you move forward from a sprint paddle is greater than the amount you move forward from a relaxed paddle ie you travel further per stroke (or use less strokes to go a set distance). But that occurs generally only when you are at a high speed and you maintain that top speed. So its still very energy inefficient. And if your stoke mechanics are flawed, then you are spending even more energy

its like run sprinting. If you run 100m sprint, your first few steps are short and fast and hard. Then you hit a point at which your stride (still fast and hard) propels you a big distance forward. So I happened recently to be reading about Usain Bolt on this very issue and his statistics are

first 10m - takes 11 strides; thereafter takes between 3.5 and 4 strides per 10m
first 10m - stride length is 1.4m; thereafter between 2.4 and 2.8m per stride

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl ... hk-36-149/

And at 2.4m+ per stride length, that is far further than anyone jogging will step. But joggers, even though each stride is shorter, can obviously maintain that stride for much further than 100m.

so...in short - you cant really compare sprint paddling with normal paddling; at the start of the sprint you will be paddling faster and harder for less return per paddle; but after you build momentum you will be going forward further per stroke. But only if you keep the momentum up - which uses lots of energy.

But I can say that if your sprint paddle is shallow and lots of splashing and bad hand positioning etc - you may well take a lot of strokes and not go very far very fast.

This makes a lot of sense! Thanks for the in-depth reply.