Surfing Waves

hello

figured out that i have all tools for surfboard making here
have a foam shortboard 6'0, with which i do paddling
i want to do just wave riding no sail, no kite
have an old shitty long-sailboard (without sail) for surfing, that someone gave me for free
because of that and a low budget i now want to make my own wooden surfboard

heard that a beginner surfboard should be 45 centimeters longer then body height? (is that true?)
I'm a complete beginner surfer, age 30, good fitness level, around 79 kg and 1,77 centimeters long
different volume calculators for surfboard are out here
This page states for my weight: https://firewiresurfboards.com/surfboar ... calculator

Your volume is around
52.18L
Better Waves
55.68L
Weak Waves
59.18L

This here: https://lostsurfboards.net/surfboard-volume-calculator/

states 31 to 39L

my goal is surfing smaller waves in klitmöller, hvide sande and sylt
dont know if the wave type can be checked out that way, so here are the spots when the waves are bigger:




in sylt waves look quite chaotic
i think i will mostly ride in klitmöller

im reading about surfboard shapes (rails, bottom, rocker, tail etc.) that are good for these conditions
maybe you have some ideas regarding shape and the waves, as well?
how long and wide could the board be, that i can still use it quite some time when i get more advanced?
of course i can make a new one later on but i would prefer a board that holds some time.

i think i need to make the board hollow but this here seems to be too complicated (look at 1:20):


i think i can maybe do it the way in this video (the inside at 3:28)


in this video, they make an board which is not hollow:


how would that affect the overall volume, when the same wood is used?
how can i calculate the volume of the board?

wat4zz wrote:because of that and a low budget i now want to make my own wooden surfboard

heard that a beginner surfboard should be 45 centimeters longer then body height? (is that true?)
....
This page states for my weight: https://firewiresurfboards.com/surfboar ... calculator

....
im reading about surfboard shapes (rails, bottom, rocker, tail etc.) that are good for these conditions
maybe you have some ideas regarding shape and the waves, as well?
how long and wide could the board be, that i can still use it quite some time when i get more advanced?
of course i can make a new one later on but i would prefer a board that holds some time.

Most people suggest beginner boards at 3ft (90cm) over your height.

For volume suggest you look here rather than manufacture websites that always coincidentally suggest a volume that matches the boards they sell...http://surfsimply.com/surf-coaching/vol ... ht-ratios/ At 79kg beginner you probably want a board around 65-70L in volume

Making your own surfboard is hard . You need to match rails and rocker and tail and concaves and nose and fin placement. You can make something that looks the shape of a surfboard and probably is capable of being surfed, but that doesnt mean it will be a good board or particularly easy to surf. In any event, get yourself boardCAD https://www.boardcad.com/ (its free) and a free CAD program and play around until you get something that looks good. Then make up some templates and go for it.

the type of wood you use is extremely important. You cant use any lump of wood you have around, it will be too heavy, become waterlogged, too stiff. In fact, wood is probably the worst thing to try and shape to make a surfboard. You can get a surfboard blank from many places for maybe euro100 and even get it cut by a CNC machine based on your CAD design eg http://www.iceblanks.com/de/. You still have to glass it and put fin boxes in and so on

I doubt there is a home surfboard maker whose first surfboard cost less than just buying a board. Unless you happen to already own the tools and wood and fin boxes and all the rest, its almost certain you can find an old second hand board for cheaper than making it

However! Far be it for me to discourage you. It will be a hard journey, you will likely make mistakes. But you may end up with a surfable board that is all yours.

What if I asked you your recommendation on making my own snow skis ? And also knowing I’ve never even skied before. What would you say ?

First consideration, making your own surfboard is not cheap, depending on your craft skills it is possible to come up with something.
Two what wood would you use? .you will need resins and fiberglass or marine varnishes, probably all available where you live
But suitable light woods, not so likely!

The old sailboard is a possible reshaping candidate .
Surfboards are petrochemical environmental nasty in reality.

Next really to learn you need to do some real watertime the waves in your area may be poor but they are at least waves
Your best fitting board would be about 2.4 meters long, please go surfing first to clearly understandwhat it is about!

dtc wrote:

wat4zz wrote:because of that and a low budget i now want to make my own wooden surfboard
...
heard that a beginner surfboard should be 45 centimeters longer then body height? (is that true?)
....

Most people suggest beginner boards at 3ft (90cm) over your height.

For volume suggest you look here rather than manufacture websites that always coincidentally suggest a volume that matches the boards they sell...http://surfsimply.com/surf-coaching/vol ... ht-ratios/ At 79kg beginner you probably want a board around 65-70L in volume

.

You should be at least 2-3 feet over your size. And given that you have never surfed, your are a beginner at level 1. Surf simplys ratios are good, and they put you at 0.9kg/l. Even with some room, that puts you somewhere at least between 75 and 80l volume, and above 8ft.

Building your own board will not save you money. It will cost you a lot of money, time, material and waste. Spend that time on another job and buy a decent used board for the money you earn. Even for a simple job, that is one week of work. This is much less time than you will need for building your board, and the first ones you build won't even be good anyway.

Most of all, stop daydreaming and get wet. Then you know what you talk about.

dtc wrote:Most people suggest beginner boards at 3ft (90cm) over your height.

For volume suggest you look here rather than manufacture websites that always coincidentally suggest a volume that matches the boards they sell...http://surfsimply.com/surf-coaching/vol ... ht-ratios/ At 79kg beginner you probably want a board around 65-70L in volume

Making your own surfboard is hard . You need to match rails and rocker and tail and concaves and nose and fin placement. You can make something that looks the shape of a surfboard and probably is capable of being surfed, but that doesnt mean it will be a good board or particularly easy to surf. In any event, get yourself boardCAD https://www.boardcad.com/ (its free) and a free CAD program and play around until you get something that looks good. Then make up some templates and go for it.

the type of wood you use is extremely important. You cant use any lump of wood you have around, it will be too heavy, become waterlogged, too stiff. In fact, wood is probably the worst thing to try and shape to make a surfboard. You can get a surfboard blank from many places for maybe euro100 and even get it cut by a CNC machine based on your CAD design eg http://www.iceblanks.com/de/. You still have to glass it and put fin boxes in and so on

I doubt there is a home surfboard maker whose first surfboard cost less than just buying a board. Unless you happen to already own the tools and wood and fin boxes and all the rest, its almost certain you can find an old second hand board for cheaper than making it

However! Far be it for me to discourage you. It will be a hard journey, you will likely make mistakes. But you may end up with a surfable board that is all yours.

thanks for answers guys, i know its a very serious topic..

my homie has all tools (sander, planer, saws....)

will just need to buy preshaped or not foam, reinforcements, fcs plugs + fins and some resin
maybe some wood from a redneck or alibaba

thought foam blocks would just cost 40 dollars (read that in an article lol)
anyway if i choose simple foam block from your suggested page, everything together will cost me 180 euro

will try to make 65 l board
55 to 65 cm taller then me is enough i think, so it will be around 8'0
read that beginner boards should be 20 to 22 wide so i choose 20

thanks for the tip with the program, will try try try to make something like an allroundshape, like hyptocrypto and boards on the other pictures:





they got quite wide and evenly tail and nose width
single to double concave
no stringer, tangas on the beach
hope the program can calculate the volume

y'all know at which volume turtle rolling is necessary instead of duck diving?

wat4zz wrote:y'all know at which volume turtle rolling is necessary instead of duck diving?

I have some very high volume boards that I do a half duck dive with (called a duckdip here sometimes). The half duck dive is less effort than a turtle roll and works well for me. However I still do turtle rolls sometimes because it seems the thing to do most often because a wave is landing directly on me. When I surfed a lower volume shortboard long ago (no one ever talked about volume in those days) I did duck dives and turtle rolls similarly as well

wat4zz wrote:y'all know at which volume turtle rolling is necessary instead of duck diving?

the volume at which you can get the board far enough under the water to avoid the white water. It depends on strength, weight, timing and especially skill. And size of wave you are duck diving

that said, for most people for a proper 3ft under water duck dive, my rule of thumb is less than 0.5L per kg of bodyweight. So 80kg person = under 40L. Less for a beginner. Of course, if a beginner is trying to surf boards under 40L they are probably spending most of their time duck diving and not surfing, so I guess they will get good at it.

Btw, the site I linked above with blanks was just a random site I found. There may be cheaper sites around and in particular if you look for seconds (second quality blanks), they are still good enough for a first board.

I need to choose one, but I am a starter in this sport. Would you recommend any?

oldmansurfer wrote:I have some very high volume boards that I do a half duck dive with (called a duckdip here sometimes). The half duck dive is less effort than a turtle roll and works well for me. However I still do turtle rolls sometimes because it seems the thing to do most often because a wave is landing directly on me. When I surfed a lower volume shortboard long ago (no one ever talked about volume in those days) I did duck dives and turtle rolls similarly as well

thanks4infos

that said, for most people for a proper 3ft under water duck dive, my rule of thumb is less than 0.5L per kg of bodyweight. So 80kg person = under 40L. Less for a beginner. Of course, if a beginner is trying to surf boards under 40L they are probably spending most of their time duck diving and not surfing, so I guess they will get good at it.

thats interesting.
regarding volume, a wooden board with same volume might weigh much more.
i saw 6'0 hollow wooden boards online that weigh 5.4 kilogram
read on other forum about weights and volume :
6'0 board, either
- superlight pro comp boards - 2.2 to 2.3kg (which hold only 4 to 6 month when used everyday),
- average custom boards - 2.5 to 2.7kg, or
- heavy glassed ones - 2.8 to 3.0kg
why float bigger board better, because the weight of the user and board is transferred wider on the water?
is then lets say, apart from performance, a 9'0 inch 4 kilogram board floating better then a 9'0 inch 5 kilogram board, which has same length, shape and width like the 4kg, but is thicker, or is it the opposite?

when a board is hollow, how does that affect the volume?

I think the volume is a geometrical thing unaffected by the materials (as far as I know). However obviously a board made with hollow woood will float much better than one the same size made out of solid lead but most likely not as well as one made out of EPS foam. So it is displacement volume or if you filled a tub to the top with water and shoved the board under water the volume would be equal to the amount of water displaced by the geometrical shape of the board regardless of what is inside of it.

Yes, volume is just area/ the amount of space it takes up.

The extent to which a given volume can float is determined by gravity (weight of the object) pushing it down, and water density (holding it up) (for a small subset, surface tension is also important). Two objects with identical dimensions made of different material will have the same volume but different weight and hence different float, because 'float' is determined by 'weight the volume can support less weight of the object itself'. So if an object can support 10kg but weighs 12kg, it will sink. If it weighs 8kg then it will float.

Hence people say lighter boards (eg epoxy) are 'floatier' and they are right to some extent. If a board displaces 75kg and weighs 5kg, it will float less than an equivalent board that weighs 3kg.

However, that 2kg 'float advantage' becomes less important when you stick an 80kg person on the top of the board. Now its a question of '85kg weight' (person plus board weight) vs 83kg weight. Still a difference but not much percentage wise. Of course, if you have a wooden board weighing 15kg, then the differences start becoming quite noticeable.

Volume is relevant in surfing for a few things, to some extent, but (a) other things are more important (ever tried to surf an 80L sphere? its much harder than a flat object) and (b) once you are standing and surfing the wave, you have moved into planing and other hydrodynamics and volume becomes less important (however, board weight/where the weight is located can still be important).

So... hollow boards. Hollow boards are no different, volume is calculated the same way. However, compared to the weight of a solid wood board, they are much lighter.

Concerning volume it is only useful with considering the board design and size. Board design is a complex thing and a 5 foot 80 liter board is not going to paddle as well as a 8 foot 80 liter board given similar designs. Length assists paddling due to profile drag which is greater with wider thicker boards (shorter board with equivalent volume). Profile drag is the essentially the amount of water that a board pushes as you paddle. It can be approximated by the area of a cross section of the board at its widest point.

So other than the fore mentioned materials needed, now you also need to purchase a valve or plug to vent the hollow construction.

By the way, what bottom configuration you plan to shape into it ?

Here is a youtube video of the process.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-WI2VrfxYec

I acutally think there is an easier way, but waiting for retirement to invest the time to try it.

thx4infos2y'all^^
i decided to make a foam board first

waikikikichan wrote:So other than the fore mentioned materials needed, now you also need to purchase a valve or plug to vent the hollow construction.
By the way, what bottom configuration you plan to shape into it ?

Hello, read that also, about the boyle's-law

regarding bottom configuration:

goal: standing up easier, keeping balance easier, having maneuveribility (is that even a word?) when progressing, all while as fast as possible (north sea not everyday the hit), not interested in nose riding atm

i'm thinking about as i said an quite evenly wide tail and nose area and regarding rocker, not too much nose and tail lift (a little bit more in the nose), all for easier balance
i'm thinking about a single concave that mounds into a double and then a little bit vee in the tail

read about this:

The rolled “belly” can be seen on a lot of longboards, and blending into some hybrid style shapes. It’s generally found around the nose and running down the length of the board until it is blended into another contour. This can help keep the rails of your nose above the water line, preventing you from pearling…which is especially handy when doing out of some turns.

why does the belly at the nose help avoid pearling, does this only apply when the nose has significant lift also?
is it absurd to blend from a (how long?) bellied nose to a single concave?
does the belly then should go up the rails to that the nose looks like an U when one is looking from behind the tail?
what you recommend for my board apart from not too much lift? flat nose bottom or belly nose shape?

plan is to go to surfboard shop and fingering boards to get a feel for them

then start shaping very slowly, you know when you razor your beard and you did too much?^^
the beard grows perfectly in after some time, but the board shurely not lol

so i will take it very slowly shapa the board carefully, watch videos of every step and go back to the boardshop from time to time to fingering them good again.

you think i can shapa the board in a tent?
because it's easier for me to use bruh's equipment at my home
you think tent will get too hot? we have 4 to 8 celcius here.
i will use complete coverage of my skin because trust me on that this xxxxx can pass the skin and cause shi*
why i want to use a tent is because i dont want to shapa the stuff into the nature

regarding fins:
i tinker with the idea of 3 deeper fins with moderate rake for, stability and versatility
2 littel harder on the rails
1 softer at the tail

The extent to which a given volume can float is determined by gravity (weight of the object) pushing it down, and water density (holding it up) (for a small subset, surface tension is also important). Two objects with identical dimensions made of different material will have the same volume but different weight and hence different float, because 'float' is determined by 'weight the volume can support less weight of the object itself'. So if an object can support 10kg but weighs 12kg, it will sink. If it weighs 8kg then it will float.

thanks for the informations my friend, very helpful
this makes me wonder what kind of volume and design then an board (out of curiosity) might need to have, to keep a person standing on flat water, without the board getting under water at all

@waikikikichan
you ever was to mikura in japan? http://marugotomikurajima.com/english/staff.html
its very nice isle, was swimming there with dolphins, they liked to nudge me from behind and there were many of them
good eating there as well
where you surf @?

the dude on the left of your avatar, think i seen him in some surf video, is he a famous surfer or shapor?

The Guy is Rabbit Kekai, an amazing Surfer and all round ambassador of Alpha, sadly he has gone but his Legacy is everything about Hot dog Surfing and being an all round waterman.


Since you have an encylopedia of questions I would recommend read Matt Warshaw's Encyclopedia of Surfing which also includes videos
None of them mean anything to Surfboards shapes Liter, Rail shape tail shape Rocker bottom contours and the whole set of other technical terms.
Unless you get to actually surf none will mean anything none will they help you master the SKILLS needed, that only comes by water time in a surf Zone.

Pearling is not prevented by Rocker, it is an acquired still of timing and paddling position on the board matching the speed of the wave, reading the wave's response .
GO SURFING!!

jaffa1949 wrote:GO SURFING!!

well actually im going to surf in may in klitmöller

still that board will be done sooner or later

i have the encyclopedia of surfing, still not looked much in it


new material and new inspiration
https://vimeo.com/323513960