Surfing Waves

Hi all,

I am pondering to buy a longboard. I am past my third season now, surf about 30 days/year. I am 6.3 and 200lbs. The board will be used in Beach breaks in France, Portugal and Spain and in the weak, short period windwell soup called North Sea (Dutch/German coast). From what i have seen, I like Firewire a lot optically and they seem to be a bit more sturdy than traditional boards,too. I have set my eyes on two models. What I look for my board is good glide and paddle help vs a minimal, but something that is still maneuvrable enough. I am not expecting to noseride in the near future. This board will be my only board when I travel (March - October).

1. Flexflight 9.0 x 23 x 3, Squash, about 76l

This is supposed to be a performance longboard, but from what I read, seems to be good as an allorund board too.



2. TJ Everyday 9.4 x 23 1/4 x 2 7/8 about 76l

More a mix of performance and noseirder.





So far I am tending a bit more towards to the Flexflight. That is also because I had a longboard at 9.0 and found that length already quite long, both on th water as well as handling i.e. at the airport. I am not sure I would be comfortable with an even longer board. Although It looks as if the TJ everday would be a great summer board and a great paddler.

Which of these two you think would be a better allrounder?

There's a significant difference in rocker line in these boards, the Flexflight has much more rocker than the TJ Everyday. (Look at the 3d views on the Firewire website) Because of that the TJ is the (much) better paddler but the FF has better turning driven from the back.
There is always that terrible decision to make what you favor most, best is to buy both..

If you’re not doing longboard competition, you don’t need to be restricted to a 9’0”. You can play around with width and thickness to get the same float.
How about the FireWire Submoon in 8’7” or 8’11”. I think it’ll be better for beach break and shoving in a plane.

Thanks for the tip - I looked at the Submoon and it certanly is an interesting shape. But I am wondering with the very thin tail wether that is not for more advanced surfers? Seems the volume in the longboard is a bit more evenly distributed. I would need the 8.11, so there seems not much advantage vs the Flexflight.

Comparing the Rocker of the Flexflight and TJ Everyday - there seems to be quite a difference, mainly in the front: But the TJ everyday doesn't look very flat either, or does it?

Added the view for 4 different boards.

Found this - the TJ Everday doesn't sound like the allrounder I am looking for: http://slimes.com.au/uncategorized/firewire-tj-everyday-longboard/.

That would leave the Flexflight 9.0 or the Submoon 8.11.

What kind of surfing do you want to do? Do you want a stable platform for noseriding and cross stepping or do you see yourself doing more top-to-bottom surfing and turning? Do you want your board to be able to handle bigger, hollower waves or do you see yourself mostly gliding along the faces of smaller waves? If you're not sure, then I'd err on the side of a flatter rocker. I'd rather make a mistake that made it easier to paddle rather than a mistake that made it easier to takeoff on steeper waves (but slowed my paddling). I imagine North Sea surfing is pretty chaotic beach break type waves. If that's where you do most of your surfing, then more rocker might be preferable. On the other hand, if North Sea surfing is closer to splashing around in windy soup, then you might want the flatter rocker. I don't know what the waves are like that you frequent, but you should try thinking about what works for the majority of the surf you'll riding.

Another thing to consider, if you're surfing wind swell in the North Sea most of the time, you might want to consider a board more suited to choppy seas (think polyurethane).

I am at the North Sea about 1/3 of my surfing, the rest at the Atlantic. The North Sea is not typical Noseriding territory. It actually is not great surf territory at all. Waves are weak, fast and short. You need to react fast as waves will break anywhere and everywhere. Most people I see ride HP longboards or shortboards.

This is like one of the very best days will look like, probably less than 10 of those per year. Most not during weekends or holidays:



I want to use the board to generate speed and do turns, I am not looking for classical Noseriding/Crossstepping yet.

Oldie wrote:I want to use the board to generate speed and do turns, I am not looking for classical Noseriding/Crossstepping yet.

The photo of the Flexflight shows a pulled in tiny squash tail, almost pinny. But it has a large hip then abruptly pulls in. I think that make it hard to draw up the nose tight into the wall of the wave. And it will draw out your turns. A pin is good for down-the line and point breaks.
If you want to generate speed on not so smooth faces, you need a wider tail to push off of. The twin tips of the Submoon will help you pivot and roll from rail to rail.
And just as you can't judge a board by only VOLUME, you also can't judge by it's side view rocker. You have to consider how hard the rails, concaves, forward-V, where the shaper distributed the volume.

Here is Taylor Jensen yesterday, riding a Firewire at the WSL Longboard event in Onjuku, Chiba, Japan.


You can see more of the contestants at http://starb.on.coocan.jp/daily/daily0.html#LBL038

I finally got to see the video you posted. Hmm, I just don't know enough about surfboard design to feel comfortable about recommending a specific board. I came very close to buying a Firewire and was looking at the same boards as you. I was leaning toward the Flexflight at the time. Honestly, I think you would probably be happy with any of the boards you posted. I lean toward the Flexflight because it seems to have a little more rocker and that might allow you to take off on bigger waves in the future. Tudeo has a Submoon and he likes it so that's something to consider. If I were going to buy a Firewire today, I would probably go with a TJ Pro because I would want to have more maneuverability and thinner rails.

My recommendation is to gather more info. You might even want to write to Firewire and ask them what they recommend for the surfing conditions you'll be in. Give them your specs (height, weight, ability, surfing conditions, etc.) and see if they recommend something. It's a hard decision to make. Unfortunately, you kind of have to go all in on a surfboard and surf on it for awhile before you have enough experience to know what you like and don't like. I really like my current board. It's a used, 10 year old, locally shaped board that I really like. When I compare my board to the four Firewires you posted, I would say my board is similar to the TJ Everyday. Anyway, good luck on your decision.

Firewire has its own forums, if you havent already found them

But I suspect the differences between the boards you have shortlisted, if you surf 30 days per year and have only been surfing for a few years, wont be terribly noticeable. I wouldnt get too caught up in it, and I wouldnt want you to buy a board and think (whenever you do something wrong) 'if only I had bought the other board it would all be perfect/easier' - because it wont have been. In other words, either board will be good. The differences probably wont be too noticeable.

Hi all,

many thanks for help and feedback. I now saw a picture of the Flexflight and that it has a pretty narrow (14.2) tail, so I think this is probably not the allrounder I am looking for. I have a pretty worn down CI Waterhog that is fine (but cracks severly over the stringer), but still look for more support in smaller waves. As it will be difficult to travel with two boards, I want one that will work in the predominatly 1-4 ft, and sometimes 5-6 foot waves I encountered. I had a a proposal from a shaper too, but I so much like the Timbertek finish.

I am aware I theorize a lot, but as a landlocked wannabe surfer on a very cold and rainy November weekend - hey why not ?! There is no testing facaility in less than 1500km.

I am now leaning more towards the TJ Everyday as it probaly is indeed a good idea to err on the side of better paddling. Here all 4 boars incl the proposal from my local shaper,

9'4" is too much to put on the plane with the extra packing/padding , case/box.

Again, why not the 8'11" or 8'7" Submoon ? It has all the hidden volume in the middle, keeping the nose and tail thin. Try to a side view comparison, and you can see the difference.



75.6 L for a 9'4" yet 74.2 L for a 8'11" That's more than enough.


the website says 8'4" CI waterhog has 63.9L ( yours is 71.5L ? ) so i'm thinking the 8'7" Submoon will be fine with 67.3L

Thanks WKK, yes that length still creates some doubts for me. I did fly with a 9ft board, that was just ok (borderline). My waterhog is not in stock dims - it is wider and thicker and has 71l Volume - so in the Submoon would be looking more for the 8.11. I find that a very interesting shape and know that it has a lot of fans, but wonder with the very thin nose and Tail wether this is not better suited for more experienced surfers? Most people I hear with reviews seem to be coming from years of shortboarding.

Oldie wrote: I find that a very interesting shape and know that it has a lot of fans, but wonder with the very thin nose and Tail wether this is not better suited for more experienced surfers? Most people I hear with reviews seem to be coming from years of shortboarding.

That's the beauty of hidden volume, you most likely will be spending most of your time in the middle, where the meat is. But when you need to step back, crank a turn or make a steep drop or pull out, the thin nose and tail will be ......... ( i mean WON'T be ) there for you.
I think most reviews come from experienced surfer because most beginners can't afford or are intimidated by a board shape like that. Give any of those 4 boards to a beginner, it won't matter. Give any of those 4 boards to a advanced surfer, it won't matter. But all that matters a lot to a beginner-intermediate / half-good. But from what you describe as your needs and conditions, i would stay away from a narrow pulled in tail and try to get as much volume as possible yet be good to travel with.

Oldie wrote:..wonder with the very thin nose and Tail wether this is not better suited for more experienced surfers?

I love my Submoon 8'2. If you stand somewhere in the middle, it has a big sweetspot, it's great for relaxed cruising. And the 8'2 has a nice outline curve so it does great, and easy, trimming turns from the middle stance. I don't know if that is also true for the longer SM's, the shop in Bali told me the 8'2 is the bestseller..
The thin and rockered tail is great for stepping back for carving turns or standing back with a lot of hold on more powerful waves but, as far as I know, doesn't create problems for less experienced surfers. The only downside would be the loss of some paddle speed..
But the 8'2 is my biggest board and the best paddler of my quiver, it's all relative to what you're used to.

Tudeo wrote:

Oldie wrote:..wonder with the very thin nose and Tail wether this is not better suited for more experienced surfers?

....it's all relative to what you're used to.

Indeed. I am loking for somethIng that is a noticeably better paddler than my waterhog. The more I look, the more the 8.11 Submoon look interesting. It has much more surface which will make a difference, but it which leaves the question how much the stronger rocker and thinner tail will offset that.

The thinner tail will make virtually no difference to paddling. The key for paddling is the front half of the board - so the rocker will affect it. Well, obviously thinner tail affects volume, but the overall volume is fine so (as others have mentioned) there is plenty of volume built into the board. The back half of the board isnt really a factor when paddling

The thin tail comes into play when you are standing - it means there is less for the wave to 'push' against so you just have to be a bit more aware of speed rather than just let the board do all the work. But for an 8'11 it probably wont be too noticeable (it will be a bit different but you will be able to cope, I'm sure). In return, you get the ability to more easily bury the tail to turn.