Is it possible to surf with 2 fins on a three fin board?

[IanCaio]

Asking for compensation is not a rule, neither is a guarantee. Even if the other part realizes he is guilty, he might only appologize and go away without paying anything. As there is the possibility of he being guilty but thinking you were guilty (it happens). There's no "water police" to force the guilty part to pay the damaged one, or to investigate what happened. It's all an informal process (just as with the ethiquet rules).

About the situation, just as the guys said: Looking around is a must. If you don't feel confident looking all around you before taking off (which is more about getting used to than anything else), then you shouldn't be in a crowded line up. If you don't feel confident pulling off a wave before the board drives, you shouldn't paddle inside someone else.

But don't let it ruining your stoke, just take those situations as opportunities to learn, and avoid them happening again!

[OlegLupusov]

Guys, thank you for your input. But you do sound a bit biased in favor of advanced surfers:)
The road traffic metaphor is not a good one. If a driver having the priority (green light or other) sees the other car running red light but instead of stopping accelerates for the joy of riding, he is guilty of attempted murder.

Many advanced surfers go anyway in hope of avoiding the accident by luck, skills or experience.
The more advanced the surfer the riskier moves he makes.

At my level, in small waves I do control my ride more or less. And, most of the time I am capable of avoiding a collision when I have the priority. Because I assume that I am better positioned to avoid it. I lose some waves because of that but still may enjoy my session
I do ride a long board or even a soft long board. And my power of paddling is higher than average because of martial arts background (more than 100 push ups and 28 chin-ups). So, I pop up early and am positioned further from the shore than other surfers. Therefore, I have the priority quite often and other surfers including advanced ones drop in me on all the time. Almost always I manage to avoid the collision.

Advanced surfers with hard boards and sharp fins are more dangerous than my foamie. By far.
And therefore I have more rights to be in a crowded lineup than an advanced surfer who rides through the crowd at a top speed risking everybody's health and well being.

[jaffa1949]

Let's put this straight right now You may be more courteous than other surfers but nothing you do gives you any more "rights" than anyone else.!!!
You may have come from one of the most socially ordered countries on the planet but you are in an anarchic dog eat dog environment = surfing.
You tell us you can't turn but you can avoid when you have priority????
How do you figure that??
You talk about a learners wave and then you say an advanced surfers wave was about a kilometre away , surfers ride where they want there is no double diamond black run delineation that marks it out for classification nor enforcement to ploice the run
It is not about advanced surfers being favoured it is about the risk you pose to yourself and other surfers in your thoughts of how the line up should work.
We are trying to advise you on how best to proceed, you can defend your position but it is just so wrong and putting you in harms way!

The underwater Go pro pictures of the 2 fin board running over your board shows how close you are coming to injury. I want you to stay safe and stoked, but as I see it, it is not going to end well

[oldmansurfer]

Maybe it is like someone who just got their driving permit going to drive on a racetrack. It's risky to drive on a racetrack but even more risky if there is a total beginner driver there. Advanced surfers are risky to themselves but beginners are risky to everyone. There are general rules of etiquette of surfing. Many beginners violate those all the time and that creates risk. If everyone never runs a red light then you don't have to take evasive action and no one crashes. Regardless of what you do to avoid an accident when someone runs a red light sometimes they will occur. You trust that they won't run the red light. That is the rule. The more they run the red lights the more accidents there will be.

Whether or not you have priority because you paddled further out depends on if you waited your turn in the lineup to get further out. If you just paddle out past everyone and take the waves that violates the rules of most lineups and that is why they drop in on you.

[waikikikichan]

The road traffic metaphor is not a good one. If a driver having the priority (green light or other) sees the other car running red light but instead of stopping accelerates for the joy of riding, he is guilty of attempted murder.

My "metaphor" was about Honking, not trying to accelerate/speeding up. You believe if the surfer coming at you does NOT alert you or give out a verbal shout, that he shares responsibility in the collision. I agree, if some surfer sees you and just puts his head down and tries to bull down right through you, that is wrong. What if the other car or surfers did give a warning, and for some reason you didn't hear them ?

"Why didn't you warn me"
"if you're good enough, you should've gone around me"
"This is a beginner spot it can't be helped"
"nobody owns the ocean"
"If you're so good, you should surf some place else"
"hey, I'm just trying to have fun"

After surfers moved out of the beginner stage, I noticed they don't use those phrases anymore.

I rather not hear people yelling "Hey !", "Ho !", "Heads up, Look out ! " all day as I am trying to enjoy a nice surf. . Just like I would rather not hear Honking.

But I come from Hawaii, where people are more relaxed and have Aloha. Might be different in other parts of the world. Heard they honk a lot in New York.

[OlegLupusov]

Jaffa,

Regarding the rights that was the answer to the post stating that I have no rights to be in the crowded line up. So, my point was I do have have the rights to be in the line up if I choose so. And it could be safer than the adviser's being in the same line up.

I can make a turn right now. I told that I couldn't avoid the "forty dollar" accident. But it was four months ago. And I managed to alert him so that he managed to do a turtle roll.

As for avoiding the accident, my options are
1) step at the tail to make a stop or/ make a turn so that direct the board to the shore
2) just dive from the board in the opposite direction after stepping on the tail;
3) grab the rails with my hands and do a version of a turtle roll.

And alerting goes without saying. And that's with a foamie which is quite safe to get hit by.

I am talking about small waves. 1-2 foot. In big ones I am super cautious. And the competition is low because of troubled paddle-out. I surfed with a hard one for a month and was even more cautious.

Didn't get yr point about most socially ordered countries. Do you mean that there no rules in surfing after all?

[OlegLupusov]

Whether or not you have priority because you paddled further out depends on if you waited your turn in the lineup to get further out. If you just paddle out past everyone and take the waves that violates the rules of most lineups and that is why they drop in on you.

How many waves should I miss before my first attempt? What if the wave is too small for anybody else? Should I miss it anyway? Are long boarders always obliged to wait for short-boarders?

Honestly, I just can't imagine how it is even possible with everyone moving towards the peak all the time. Even so, I rest for a while after paddling out anyway.

Could please elaborate on this rule a little bit more. I guess a snaking (back paddling) is a sin which means paddling out deeper for the sake of having priority but popping up approximately at the same line as everybody else.

[Big H]

Don't overanalyse it....there are no lawyers in the lineup....you have to do your best to share, not be greedy, not take the biggest wave of EVERY set, not paddle for three waves in a row after missing the first two....when you first arrive in a crowded lineup take a set to sort out the break, where the waves are breaking, positioning and more pertinent to the topic, as a courtesy for all of those out there who have been waiting for who knows how long, a set or two, trying to get a wave. It's common courtesy, or at least it should be.

[oldmansurfer]

You should talk to the surfers out there. Rules vary at different breaks. Maybe they could tell you what it the proper way to approach that situation. I think waiting one wave for each surfer you paddle around would be passable. That is what I did at my home break when I took off way over from the pack.If the wave is too small for everyone else then there will be no one else going for it and that wave would not be a problem

[jaffa1949]

You may be more courteous than other surfers but nothing you do gives you any more "rights" than anyone else.!!!
You may have come from one of the most socially ordered countries on the planet but you are in an anarchic dog eat dog environment = surfing.

That is my quote, it doesn't say you have no rights, just no more rights than anyone else!
Somewhere in past posts you mentioned you came from Switzerland it is only being used to point out the difference of culture nothing else.
About advanced surfers, they get more waves by positioning in the line up , genuine paddle power, skill at taking and making difficult drop, no matter how much you protest you are the VW beetle on a formula 1 track.
In an ideal surf zone all would be equal , but they are not
Just out of curiousity where are you surfing ? That could help help you with the local rules,
Lunada Bay excepted!

[OlegLupusov]

I am from Russia:)

Not far from Lunada bay, actually.
Most of the time at El Porto beach. So, I am talking about this spot.

Venice beach (either rose avenue or Bay Street).
County line (more advanced spot). 2-5 times per months
Topanga Beach rarely.
Surfrider beach almost never.

[OlegLupusov]

Smb else wrote that I have no rights not u! And u responded to my answer to that statement.

[Big H]

I'll say one thing as far as that goes....until you stop being the guy who can't pull off when paddling inside someone else, or can't avoid collisions, you will be found out by the more experienced in the lineup and from that point on you will have less de facto rights.

[jaffa1949]

You covered it entirely, when you said one avoidance was diving off in the opposite direction after standing on the tail.
Guarantees putting the board straight into the other guys head. diving off is not a controlled anything.
Sorry somehow I got Swiss but not from the name, definitely Russian.
Californian crowds are very parochial and territorial and they will not give anybody an inch to move that they consider of lesser capability than themselves.
There is also a family sense of protecting their children so rightly or wrongly being perceived as out of line will cause a whole lot of trouble.
Please take care, that is really what we are asking of you.

[RinkyDink]

Californian crowds are very parochial and territorial and they will not give anybody an inch to move that they consider of lesser capability than themselves.

That's doubly true in LA county. The localism around there can get way out of hand. I'd keep a low profile, Oleg, especially if you're surfing a foamie. Stay out of Lunada Bay and Hollywood By the Sea. I've read they're particularly harsh.

[OlegLupusov]

Maybe it is like someone who just got their driving permit going to drive on a racetrack. It's risky to drive on a racetrack but even more risky if there is a total beginner driver there. Advanced surfers are risky to themselves but beginners are risky to everyone. There are general rules of etiquette of surfing. Many beginners violate those all the time and that creates risk. If everyone never runs a red light then you don't have to take evasive action and no one crashes. Regardless of what you do to avoid an accident when someone runs a red light sometimes they will occur. You trust that they won't run the red light. That is the rule. The more they run the red lights the more accidents there will be.

Guys, don't u understand that the ocean is not a racetrack? There are beginners, first times with instructors, swimmers, SUPer, children and even animals:) it's more like city roads if not "school zone".
And u can't seriously assume that everybody will follow the rules. So, it's reasonable to take into account potential violations of the "rules" and act accordingly. If smb is killed or crippled and the police manage to crack the advanced surfer about racetrack, "rules", not bothering to alert, not changing the path until the last moment, if at all because of the rules, he is likely to face depraved heart murder or manslaughter charges.

And beginners could be a nuisance or even an obstacle. But they are not a real danger. Foamies may cause some bruising and light hardware damage.
And advanced surfers may kill with their boards. To say nothing about totaling the boards.

And the validity of the rules is quite arguable:) Petsonnaly, I don't challenge them but there is no ground for rules being binding on everybody:)
So, appreciate that people choose to comply and don't ask people to stay out of the ocean because of the lack of the skills.

[OlegLupusov]

You covered it entirely, when you said one avoidance was diving off in the opposite direction after standing on the tail.
Guarantees putting the board straight into the other guys head. diving off is not a controlled anything.

Never happened. The board slowes and changes the direction. Anyway, empty soft foamie won't do much harm in sharp constrast to the board loaded with 200 pound guy with hard elbows, knees, etc. So, it could be a better option:)

As for localism, I don't feel it much. Everybody is friendly, although a bit obsessed and not willing to sacrifice a ride to safety. That's the only complaint.

Probably, I should check Lunada Bay to change my opinion:)

[OlegLupusov]

waikikikichan,

I would appreciate it you could advise me on the repair of the rail.
I have two options:

1) open the area adjacent area to the slice because it is damaged inside. Fill the gap with hot glue and close it. Probably but not necessarily, add some some session saver if the skin won't cover everything.
2) not open the adjacent area. Fill in the existing open gaps exposing the foam with session saver. And cover it with with hot glue.

The first option requires at least one week to have the cuts completely dry. And the second one will require only one day of nominal drying.

What do u think? Which one is better? Or could you suggest alternative repairs?

Many thanks

[IanCaio]

Don't overanalyse it....there are no lawyers in the lineup....you have to do your best to share, not be greedy, not take the biggest wave of EVERY set, not paddle for three waves in a row after missing the first two....

Thank you Big H! There is no 200 pages constitution on the laws in the line up but what you said covers a lot of what people should keep in mind when they are on water.

Smb else wrote that I have no rights not u! And u responded to my answer to that statement.

I don't know if I'm the one you claim told you had no right to be in the water. But in the case you misunderstood what I said..
If you can't keep yourself out of danger, by consequence endagering others, you shouldn't be in a crowded line up, and should first learn in a less crowded place until you feel confident you won't be a burden on everybody else. It doesn't mean you have no right to surf, or to surf a spot at all. Just means that you should take a step at a time, for your own safety and others.

Beginners can still be a danger, even when using soft boards. Putting themselfs in others way, dropping in, paddling in a waves line that someone is surfing, are all attitudes that puts the beginner and the surfers around him in danger despite his board being a hard or soft one.

Don't take me wrong, I still consider myself a beginner, and have put myself and others in danger a few times. But I criticize myself, and try to learn from it. Making a mistake is fine, insisting on it is not..
Should an advanced surfer try to avoid collision if a beginner drops in his way? Sure!
Is it his fault if he can't manage to change his path and hits the beginner? No!

I'm not saying advanced surfers are saints, there are the ones that endanger others, droping in for example. I'm just talking about the situation you brought up.

By the way, steping on your tail won't stop a surfboard instantly, inertia can be a bitch sometimes

Peace!

[oldmansurfer]

Things happen in surfing beyond the control of the surfers. The rules help to make it safer and not knowing the rules makes it more dangerous. I don't ever hear of anyone being brought up for charges from running over another surfer. However I do hear of surfers taking things into their own hands and making it difficult for others to surf at certain breaks Rationalize it however you want as long as you can live with the results.