Arakawa # 2

[HaoleKook]

Hi Waikikikichan, I was just thinking the more stable fin would help make the most of days with a lower wave count.

I asked Flying Diamonds for a size suggestion, and he (the owner) uses the method where: fin height = tail width / 2 * 1.3, which is 10.5" for my board. In other words, the fin should be 1/3 taller than half the width of the tail, since the wider the tail, the further the fin is cantilevered away from the water. I know there are different methods but at least I don’t feel crazy trying the taller fin.

The 10.5 is the same area as an 8" balanced template with large side bites. I was on a 9.5 with sides so I guess it should still feel looser.

[Geezer]

For me and longboards, i will go with less fin on smaller days and more for bigger. Bigger more powerful = higher speeds and deeper bottom turns so I want the hold of more fin.

FWIW, 8.5 center plus sidebites on that board I’d consider alot of fin. Try a smaller center in that 2+1 and see how that feels If you like soending money, get a 7-7.5” cutaway center fin. I bave both plus an 8” cutaway and are my go to 2+1 combo.

[HaoleKook]

@geezer I have a feeling you’re right. I tried the 10.5, the waves were weird today so I can’t form too much of an opinion, but whatever I gained in traction I felt like I lost in that free, quick feeling, and it was a weird sticky traction that I gained.

I have a 7" that came with my side bites, I’ll give it a try. I think I’d like side bites with less drag. I have some nubs but they’re 50/50 and idk if that makes sense for side bites.

I think I’d like sides with lower drag than my Futures SB1s. I have some 50/50 nubs but idk if that foil makes sense for side bites.

[Geezer]

Before you spend anything, try that 7” with the butes you have. Should be plenty of fin for the waves you’re on.

[HaoleKook]

Thanks, that’s my plan. I also found a set of glass flex side bites I might try cutting down. Like you guys say about the little side bites, I want to supplement or fine-tune the feel of the single 9". But I’ll try the setup you suggested, I’ll never know unless I try.

I had tried the 7" with thruster side fins. It seemed like it ripped pretty good along the wave face, but also seemed like it was getting hung up trying to drop into the wave. I guess trying and comparing the normal side bites will give me an indication of how much drag they make.

[waikikikichan]

I also found a set of glass flex side bites I might try cutting down.

These are the smallest side bites I've seen for sale. Sold by Turbo Tunnel, they are called Turbo Thruster.

Hard to tell the size, but notice the base isn't even as long as the FCS plug distance ( even looks smaller in the Futures single tab. )

[Geezer]

I have a set of the futures version of these. Feel was kind of a hybrid between single and a 2+1. Like a single fin with a little more stability & hold. I would pair them on bigger days with the single I’d been using on it’s own.

[HaoleKook]

Thanks guys. I had been considering those 2.6" fins, but without the experience I wasn't sure what to expect. It sounds like they're worth trying!

I tried the plastic 9" with 3.5" sides today. I'll still try the 7" since I have it, but I think the 9" is where I need to be for awhile. It was a good blend of maneuverability, stability, challenge, and fun. And it had that more familiar feeling that I was after, compared to the Islander (Greenough) + sides combo. A nice stiff fiberglass 9" with the 2.6" sides might just be perfect.

[HaoleKook]

Now that I know where the sweet spot is, I tried the Islander/Greenough again to see if I still had the same perception. It’s definitely slower, which makes paddling and positioning more work, but it also is holding me in the wave which is why I surf so well with it. I had another ‘best ride of my life’ with it today.

The faster fin setup is sporty and responsive and appealing - and ripping across the wave is super fun! - but the slower fin will let me work on things that need work before progressing with equipment. This board was made for small mushy waves so I think it’s pretty fast when the waves have energy, and with the faster fins I just don’t have the skills yet to manage the speed/timing…yet.

[HaoleKook]

Well there's certainly a lot of learning happening. I surfed the 9.5 Greenough/sides again today - the waves were flatter/lower energy and reminded me why I wanted to change fins in the first place. It was pretty tough to catch a wave today, while with the faster center fin I was catching everything even on low energy days.

So maybe I will try a smaller center with larger sides. I did that once, but it was before I really found the sweet spot, and I was using thruster sides which maybe are different than side bites.

[Geezer]

I’m telling you, theow a 7-7.5” center with whatever sidebites you have (3.25 or 3.75) or run the 9.5 single on it’s own. It’s plenty of fin and you won’t feel like you’re dragging anchor.

[HaoleKook]

Thanks @Geezer, I will. I have some bigger fiberglass side bites on the way and will try them with a smaller center.

I went back to the 9" (TJ Power Drive) + sides today - what a difference! The board really glides and I caught everything it seemed. I chose to stick to the inside and focus on my pop up, and on being patient. I think having the extra fin was letting me be sloppy on my pop-up and get away with rushing the bottom turn. I was able to control the 9" OK after a few tries, and ended with a really good long surf in.

[Geezer]

Run another couple experiments: Try the 9” without the sidebites and the smaller center with the bites you have. I think you’ll be pleasantly surprised and you have them in hand anyway.

[HaoleKook]

I can try the 7" with the sides I have. It's worth mentioning that the Island Fin/Greenough is much wider than the Power Drive. I think that's where a lot of the drag is coming from. If it were an airfoil it would be a high lift, high drag, forgiving foil, where the Power Drive would be more like a fighter jet - the complete opposite. But maybe the7" Futures 7" will have a thicker, more forgiving foil to it.

Maybe I'm getting off the ledge with this one, haha, I just know that with this 9" Power Drive I need all the fin area I have at the moment.

And most importantly I'm just stoked to be back surfing most days! It's such a gift and a treat to be in the Hawaiian water in the morning before work. Today a wave literally broke right in my face, and I just laughed and smiled thinking I got a big wet kiss from nature

[HaoleKook]

Another day on the bigger side bites, and what a difference! I had mistaken 'speed and poor pop-up technique' with slipping down the face of the wave without enough balance to pop-up properly. With the bigger sides I can angle takeoffs and make bottom turns on the face of the wave. And now I can feel the 9" center 'getting in the way' for lack of better words.

I was almost starting to think I forgot how to surf!

[HaoleKook]

Today the inside break gave me a confidence boost, then the steeper, HH outside break took it all away With the draggy fin I had to be so far forward on the board, so now I'm re-learning where to be. Hopefully the steeper wave issue is just a weight placement thing.

The purpose of this board is to get me ready to surf my 8'6. Hopefully in another week or two I'll be ready, and hopefully the waves stay like they've been. That board is thinner, narrower, with more rocker and a thruster setup...and a rounded pin tail, so it's much easier for taking the steeper drops. But it's obviously less stable and slower paddling, so that's what I'm trying to get ready for.

[HaoleKook]

I really don't understand this at all: with the larger sides and 7" Futures plastic fin - tiny in comparison - yet first time it 'felt like' I was able to sink and surf off the tail. Before it 'felt like' I was standing on a wide flat plate on top of the water, needing large sides to keep the plate from slipping down the wave face. Today the tail 'felt' narrower and sharper, like I could push it down and get it to cut into the wave.

Maybe the big fin was making it hard to get the board fully on rail??

And @geezer I'm sure I don't need to tell you how right you were! My gosh I can't believe how much easier the board turns with the 7". And due to the above, I actually feel like I have more grip, not less! I was actually over steering (over pivoting) a bit, maybe from being used to working so hard to turn the board? The smaller fin gives me much more room to move it around, but I wasn't unstable at all so maybe I'll try getting used to where it is.

The other thing I noticed is the board actually felt slower. I thought it would be faster from less drag, but maybe what I'm noticing is less 'drive' coming out of turns and down the line since I have so much less fin area. The 7" looks like a thruster fin next the 9" fins I was using.

Does moving the center fin back (in a 2+1) increase drive also, or does it just increase the turn radius?

[Geezer]

I would take that 7” center fin and put it right in the middle of the fin box and surf it like that for at least a month. Learn your board and what it can and can’t do with a consistent fin arrangement then when you do tinker again you’ll know if what you gain is better/more desirable than what you’ve lost.

[HaoleKook]

That sounds like really good advice. I've settled on the 4" sides and 7" center fin; I'll adjust the spacing and leave it alone for at least a month, assuming I can still manage on steeper days.

The past few days I had 4.25" sides with the 7" center. I loved how it surfed but it was back to being too draggy. It's an almost unbelievable difference, but the fins are scaled up in every dimension so the extra drag makes sense. It really affects the wave count when the tide is in and waves are flatter.

Today I surfed the 4" sides without adjusting the center, so there was a little more space between the fins. I had to actively push the tail down to turn versus just moving back and pivoting. It also felt like I was more on top of the water. But regardless, there were no real issues, and it glides well and catches everything, so I'll commit to this setup. And maybe pushing the tail down like that is actually, um, "surfing" ?! Either way, I'm stoked I was able to figure it out and do something new. And I'm stoked to stop making changes.

I appreciate the feedback. I write a lot of this so I have a journal of my progression, so I imagine it's a bit wordy for others to read. Thank you for continuing to keep up with it. I am learning so much from you guys and improving every day.