Surfing Waves

Hello glad to be part of the forum. I have just started back surfing. The last time I was in my late teens and now 53 (part of trying to stay young).
I have read a ton on my question, searched google, this group,and watched about 20 thousand you tube videos (surf simply also)

I am surfing mainly a 9,6 Ricky Carrol Retro 2 in small 2 to 4 ft east coast waves.
My question is around pop up and pearling. I am working on paddle speed, keeping the nose low and my weight balanced. My pearl problem could still be due to poor execution of those. However I wonder if I am waiting too late to pop up. I am really waiting until I really feel the wave push me but by that time I wonder if I have waited too long. I often pearl around this time.

So should I really feel the wave pushing me (well gravity pulling me) and then stand up or I am I paddling hard as I can to get as close to wave speed as possible and as I feel the best board lift try to pop up and that gets me down the wave ?

When I watch it looks more like paddle hard and standing is getting you into the wave not so much paddle and waiting. I feel like I am on the peak in the right place. But I keep thinking from a logical point of view that as you wait and the wave curve increases you are on a fairly flat long surface in a curve so the nose or tail has to go somewhere.

I know it could be other things like wave selection or where I am. Last session I started bending my legs up and caught more waves.

Thanks!

TeleOpenG wrote: Last session I started bending my legs up and caught more waves.

Could you elaborate on "bending my legs up". You mean as you're laying prone, you bend at the knee and the bottom of your feet are facing the up to the sky ?

Yes I moved back a bit on the board and my toes were just touching the leash connection point (I am 6 ft) the nose didn’t pearl as much but the nose was probably 2 inches or more out of the water. As the wave came under me I bent my knees so my heals were touching my but. That seems to help some but not so much later that day.

So still not sure if it is weight distribution or paddle speed or timing.

I wonder sometimes if when I watch people paddle and then pop up would they catch the wave just on their belly at that point or did the fact that they popped up make them catch the wave.

I am in the too many variables stage

Thanks

TeleOpenG wrote:I am in the too many variables stage

You are at the "Paralysis by Analysis" stage. Imagine trying to walk down the sidewalk, all the while trying to figure out at what angle you toes are at, at what millimeter distance your gate/stride should be, should you be arms swing back (or forth) ........ just walk down the sidewalk !!

TeleOpenG wrote:Yes I moved back a bit on the board and my toes were just touching the leash connection point (I am 6 ft) the nose didn’t pearl as much but the nose was probably 2 inches or more out of the water. As the wave came under me I bent my knees so my heals were touching my but.

Then that means you are still too far back. The nose should be JUST above the water surface ( and sometimes it does go under and pops back out during the paddle ). Your feet on your butt is making up for bad positioning and a weak paddle. The only thing that should be moving is from the shoulders down. Keep the rest of the body quiet.

** and STOP LOOKING AT THE NOSE !! ** Look up and out and most of your pearling will be solved.

Well don’t look at the nose was my note I wrote down after my last session. !

I will concentrate on that and move back up.

I will work on moving forward, paddle, and not looking at the nose. So to the pop up question. If I am in the right place and paddle and not looking and I didn't Pop up would I catch the wave like a boogie board ? I.e is the pop up part of catching the wave or an action in the short time after?

First tip , go surfing not think surfing!
Have fun not analysis.
What stage of wave catching you at , white water or trying for the green.
Pearling is about not match the wave speed in most cases, people paddle to catch the wave too far back on their boards, ( snowploughing effect, ) the wave begins to,lift the tail, the nose is tipped into the bottom of the wave pearling!

Practice your paddle position and paddling, so youngest a nice easy glide, nose should be close mostly 1" on a long board, but practice on flat water, where you get the most efficient glide is that point!

Another question that fits in nicely for an answer, is the pop up is part of the wave catch and often assists in actually catching the wave!
Popping up after catching the wave has the potential for all sorts of interesting wipeouts, but usually if successful only gives a different take off white water ride!

You are a Latter Day Learner, some of us went through all this as children or teens, but we did!

Have fun, you have best chance with the board you've chosen.
Enjoy the journey thoroughly

TeleOpenG wrote:My question is around pop up and pearling. I am working on paddle speed, keeping the nose low and my weight balanced. My pearl problem could still be due to poor execution of those. However I wonder if I am waiting too late to pop up. I am really waiting until I really feel the wave push me but by that time I wonder if I have waited too long. I often pearl around this time.

If you're waiting too long to pop up, then yep, you'll pearl. Think about your board's length and how you can fit that length on a 2 foot wave. If you're too slow, you end up trying to cram almost 10 feet of board onto a 4 foot wave face. You end up pearling because you've waited so long that your board is no longer sitting flat on top of the wave's ledge, but has started to move down the slope of the wave. When you have 4 feet of board in front of you and your board starts to slide down the chute, that 4 feet has to go somewhere and it will often, depending on the rocker of your board, nose dive.

My last two times out I've been riding my 9'6" longboard and I was pearling a lot. Everything felt right as far as my paddling went, but the problem was that I was too far forward. I had been riding my 7'10" board for awhile before I started riding my 9'6". Therefore, when I got back on my longboard, I positioned myself up closer to the nose. I was positioning myself on my 9'6" similarly to the way I positioned myself on my 7'10" board. On a 7'10" board I would of course be closer to the nose in prone position, but on a 9'6" with very little rocker I don't want to be that far forward. What I figured out was that when I paddle long distances at my surf break (I paddle up and down to different spots), I prefer being farther forward on my longboard (eaiser to paddle), but when I takeoff on a wave I don't want to be up that far. The problem was that I kept forgetting to scoot back on my board when I wanted to catch a wave and, therefore, my board was pearling (in part because of my leisurely popup and being too far forward). Once I scooted back, I could take my time on my popup and the problem was solved.

NOW HEAR THIS!.
Small waves unless you are very good ar best served with an adjustable angled take off.
The longboard should have the nose about an inch out of the water, not in snow plow. ( often as Rinky found , coming from a shorter board you often bury the nose the the length of the short board nose )

However the being too far back but ensures pearling as the tail is lifted as the board is slower than the wave, angled take off is the answer.
A leisurely pop up can happen, teleopenG is struggling with a basic pop up and non pearling take off.

So good paddle position
Matching the wave speed,
Angling the take off to work with the wave.
Popping up forward bring the feet forward under the body, not bringing the body back over the feet which were in the paddling position. (popping up backward ensures a pearl or a drift over the back, here you can see a 9ft 8“ board fitting into a small wave

)

Thanks for all the replies.

Yes the long board crammed into a curved surface crossed my mind about popping up too late. I am going to go out and try moving back up where the nose is just barely out of the water, keeping my head up and trying popping up earlier (well than I am ). We will see how that works.

Thanks,
John

RinkyDink wrote: I prefer being farther forward on my longboard (eaiser to paddle), but when I takeoff on a wave I don't want to be up that far. The problem was that I kept forgetting to scoot back on my board when I wanted to catch a wave and, therefore, my board was pearling (in part because of my leisurely popup and being too far forward). Once I scooted back, I could take my time on my popup and the problem was solved.

To keep the nose up I usually arch my back just prior to the popup.

BoMan wrote:To keep the nose up I usually arch my back just prior to the popup.

That's good advice. When I'm sprint paddling though, my head will often go down and my back will straighten out. My takeoff form varies depending on the wave. Sometimes I'm in a rush to get in a wave and I sprint paddle (head goes down) while at other times I'm taking my time because I already know I'm where I need to be and I can take my time. On my longboard, I just always have to remember to scoot back to my paddling sweet spot upon taking off. When I'm paddling a long distance to get from point A to point B, I scoot up farther forward.

jaffa1949 wrote:Another question that fits in nicely for an answer, is the pop up is part of the wave catch and often assists in actually catching the wave!
Popping up after catching the wave has the potential for all sorts of interesting wipeouts, but usually if successful only gives a different take off white water ride!

l:

Hi Jaffa, could you elaborate a bit on this please, sorry if it sounds a bit thick of me but isn't wakiki advice to 'catch the wave before you pop up ?

I had six two hour sessions the other week and trying to go across the face by putting pressure on the inside rail before popping up, but felt It would have maybe been more successful by popping up a bit earlier.

Silvery wrote:Hi Jaffa, could you elaborate a bit on this please, sorry if it sounds a bit thick of me but isn't wakiki advice to 'catch the wave before you pop up ?

Ahh, I can kind of see your confusion. You maybe thinking "catch the wave, then stand up" is riding the board prone all the way down the wave's face THEN get to your feet in the flats. NO, that is getting up too late. Most beginners pop up way too early and end up on the back side of the crest or without enough speed and get pitched/swallowed. Again catching a wave is like hitting a baseball. Can't swing too early, can't swing too late. Swinging for the hills ( or Paddling your guts out ) may not be the right way. You have to make good contact with the ball at the perfect time and place. Same for catching a wave.

So your next question might be " so when IS IT that you've caught the wave ? " Well, that's what separates the experienced surfers from the non-experienced riders, it takes time to learn/feel that moment.

Silvery wrote: trying to go across the face by putting pressure on the inside rail before popping up, but felt It would have maybe been more successful by popping up a bit earlier.

By doing that you're chopping down your momentum if not done right. There's a micro split second to do that and it has to be done in the perfect place, too early or to late, too weak or too strong will just make things worse. Better to keep things simple and look where you want to go.

Sorry to confuse you, the pop is after catching the wave but at the top unless you are holding a sort or cobra position prior to unleashing your coiled body into a well considered bottom turn that whips around like a snake, often set up by well timed rail pressure.
Feels great when you do one!

The pop up often successfully uses a final push the board down further into the face line as you pop up under your head and should the feet coming forward with more room as the board has dropped way with the push down.

Further down the it is much harder to pop up as the board is dropping away so much there is nomresistance from the board to push against.
Then you hit bottom with too much speed for easy control, so most learners convert to a white water prone take off:

Thank you both for the clarification and advice, I'm going to try popping up a little earlier next time, hopefully a long weekend in North Devon coming up soon.

Silvery wrote:I'm going to try popping up a little earlier next time

NO, that is the wrong approach. Don’t adhere to rigid dance steps. You constantly needs to adapt to the ever changing wave surface. Sometimes you have to pop up quick, sometimes you need to stay down longer. Learn the wave, listen to what the wave is telling you.

waikikikichan wrote:

Silvery wrote:I'm going to try popping up a little earlier next time

NO, that is the wrong approach. Don’t adhere to rigid dance steps. You constantly needs to adapt to the ever changing wave surface. Sometimes you have to pop up quick, sometimes you need to stay down longer. Learn the wave, listen to what the wave is telling you.

Yes I get your drift, I really meant was getting up on the top half of the wave instead of the bottom half, funny thing is I think I had it in France last summer but seem to have unlearned it with having so little wave time so far this year.

Update: So I moved up and concentrated on not looking at the nose and arching my back more. The result was I caught more waves. However, I still have the pearling problem often. I can't believe it is just my paddle I realize I am older but still in good shape and a very strong swimmer (competitive in the distant pass). I am working out to paddle harder and more efficiently. After my last session I thought that it may not so much be paddle speed capability, but where I am trying to get into the wave.

I am basically finding the peak and getting about 10 or 15 ft further out than that. So I wonder if I need to be further out so I can get more speed up and be catching the wave before it peaks. In other words perhaps the pearling is because I am doing other things right but trying to catch the wave when it is steeper than it should be with a long board. I still picture a long straight edge laying on a curved surface. I am going to try moving out a bit and seeing of the pearling reduces OR I just miss more waves.

TeleOpenG wrote:I am basically finding the peak and getting about 10 or 15 ft further out than that. So I wonder if I need to be further out so I can get more speed up and be catching the wave before it peaks.

It depends on the waves and your paddling strength. If the waves are crumbling at the top instead of plunging and throwing down a lip, then you might need to start paddling for them closer to their plunging/crumble line. Remember, different waves will be more suitable to different types of takeoff techniques. Sounds to me like you're working out how much paddling space you need to get your longboard up to wave speed. I would take it as a given that whatever takeoff system you figure out that works today, may not work at all on tomorrow's waves. At some point you'll have a lot of different takeoff approaches (shortboard takeoff systems included) that you'll pull out of your surfing toolbox when the waves call for them. You won't have those different takeoff systems until you've spent more time in the water figuring out what they are. Keep notes, either mentally or on paper, on what works and what doesn't. If you don't pearl on a wave, ask yourself why you didn't pearl that time. What was different? Be observant and have fun.