Surfing Waves

After playing around on a foamie, an 8' hard board hybrid, and some assorted shortboards, I've learned a few things about my surfboard requirements. My number one priority is that I want a board that moves through the water fast. I returned to my 8 foot Wavestorm (Volume 86L) the other day and paddling was a breeze. I realized immediately that ease of paddling is my first priority- shoulder injuries and mediocre arm strength have made it apparent that I need speed. Based on my need for speed, I've decided I want a longboard because they are faster paddlers and I can get into waves earlier.

The next requirement is an epoxy board. They're lighter, tougher, more buoyant, and I suspect faster (depending on board shape). Duck diving is irrelevant to me, from my experience, because I find paddle speed more important for getting outside than the ability to duck dive. Here's another factor. The longest board I can fit into my car is 8'6" (2.59 m) and that size allows me to not have to hassle with my soft racks. The question I have about the 8'6" board length, I'm 5'11" (1.8 m) 185lbs (84 kg), is whether I can still catch waves further out in longboard territory with that length or whether I will need to stay in the shortboard pack. I'm willing to go longer in board size and hassle with my soft racks if it allows me to get into waves a lot sooner. I'm just not sure what length would be best (opinions wanted). Also, I'm not that interested in noseriding or cross stepping so I want a performance longboard I can practice top-to-bottom surfing with.

I'm considering the Firewire performance longboards (TJ Pro & Flexflight), but I'm hoping to get some other ideas or insight.

nuh, you will be out with the longboarders. Even on my 7ft4 I'm more towards the longboarders than the shortboarders (although am in a few metres from the LBers).

As to what to get - sorry, cant help there.

You have to figure out what you value more then shop for that......ease of paddle vs ease of transport, flotation vs. performance, flatter focker vs more rockered, etc then shop for that. If you like the 86L of float and value paddling performance then you will want to stay away from anything labeled "performance"....the firewire boards are more to that end of things so have a look. I have a performance longboard @ 67L for 9'2" epoxy that has a lot of rocker and it paddles pretty poorly as compared to the last two longboards that I've had.....rocks on the waves that I ride though (fast, steep, hollow, jacking) and I can sink my rails easier and fit into the wave better because of its design. Look at where you surf and the conditions you want to go out in, then weight the aforementioned "vs." criteria and you'll be closer to knowing what you want.

.....or just keep an eye on craigslist and buy the first board that looks good that fits your budget. Nothing is forever and you can always sell it on if you don't like it for probably the same as what you paid.

Not sure where in in NorCal you are but, but there's a sweet 8'6" McTavish (actually shaped and signed by Bob, not Global Surf) for $400 w/ bag and fins on SF Bay Area Craigslist. I have no connection to the seller, but it looks like it fits most of your parameters (- epoxy). Plus you could resell it for near the same amount if it didn't work for you. I have an 8'1" McTavish carver that's super fun, although it's a bit different from this shape. Anyway, here's a link: http://sfbay.craigslist.org/nby/spo/5892569043.html

As for your other concerns, where you are in the lineup will really be determined by how early YOU can catch waves. On days where it's competitive and all the loggers are out, I'll lineup with them on my 6'10" and still catch waves if I'm in good position and paddling hard enough.

Also, keep in mind that most well-shaped 8'6" boards won't have nearly the same volume as a Wavestorm. For example, an 8'6" Tuflite Takayama longboard from Surftech is only ~65L, and a Firewire Flexflight at 8'6" is only ~55L. On the other hand, an 8'0" Walden Mega Magic is around 84L. Just something to consider...

Good luck whatever you end up getting.

From what I'm reading, the perfect board for you would be the Ben Aipa Big Boy Stinger. They made ( well used to ) a 7'4" and 8'4" version. The 7'4" will be plenty. That board gets in early and carves soo nice, if you can set the rail.
Another board if you want to be a wave hog but not on a 9'0", is the Hobie Peter Pan Slug. The 8'6" has more float than most 9'0s. It's seriously cheating using that.

Big H wrote:You have to figure out what you value more then shop for that......ease of paddle vs ease of transport, flotation vs. performance, flatter focker vs more rockered, etc then shop for that. If you like the 86L of float and value paddling performance then you will want to stay away from anything labeled "performance"....the firewire boards are more to that end of things so have a look. I have a performance longboard @ 67L for 9'2" epoxy that has a lot of rocker and it paddles pretty poorly as compared to the last two longboards that I've had.....rocks on the waves that I ride though (fast, steep, hollow, jacking) and I can sink my rails easier and fit into the wave better because of its design. Look at where you surf and the conditions you want to go out in, then weight the aforementioned "vs." criteria and you'll be closer to knowing what you want.

I guess if paddle speed is my main priority, then I really need to focus on a board with a flatter rocker. I have surfed a flat rocker 8'6" longboard noserider and I felt like the board locked me into one way of surfing . . . an angled takeoff followed by going straight down the line followed by cross stepping/noseriding and a handstand. Rinse and repeat (not much carving possible on that board). I guess what I need to find is the right compromise on my rocker shape. I'm hoping the extra buoyancy from epoxy will translate to a faster paddle. Maybe I should consider a flat rocker with a double concave along with a shorter board width. Maybe that would increase my turning possibilities. Bah, too much information.

waikikikichan wrote:From what I'm reading, the perfect board for you would be the Ben Aipa Big Boy Stinger. They made ( well used to ) a 7'4" and 8'4" version. The 7'4" will be plenty. That board gets in early and carves soo nice, if you can set the rail.
Another board if you want to be a wave hog but not on a 9'0", is the Hobie Peter Pan Slug. The 8'6" has more float than most 9'0s. It's seriously cheating using that.

I don't want to be a wave hog, but I want a board that will give me that option. I will definitely check your recommendations out. Thanks.

surferbee wrote:Not sure where in in NorCal you are but, but there's a sweet 8'6" McTavish (actually shaped and signed by Bob, not Global Surf) for $400 w/ bag and fins on SF Bay Area Craigslist. I have no connection to the seller, but it looks like it fits most of your parameters (- epoxy). Plus you could resell it for near the same amount if it didn't work for you. I have an 8'1" McTavish carver that's super fun, although it's a bit different from this shape. Anyway, here's a link: http://sfbay.craigslist.org/nby/spo/5892569043.html

As for your other concerns, where you are in the lineup will really be determined by how early YOU can catch waves. On days where it's competitive and all the loggers are out, I'll lineup with them on my 6'10" and still catch waves if I'm in good position and paddling hard enough.

Also, keep in mind that most well-shaped 8'6" boards won't have nearly the same volume as a Wavestorm. For example, an 8'6" Tuflite Takayama longboard from Surftech is only ~65L, and a Firewire Flexflight at 8'6" is only ~55L. On the other hand, an 8'0" Walden Mega Magic is around 84L. Just something to consider...

Good luck whatever you end up getting.

I've heard great things about McTavish boards. That's a nice board you linked to. It's a bit too far away for me, and I'm waiting on a paycheck. You're right about volume. I just use the Wavestorm volume because I know that board's buoyancy and paddle efficiency well so it helps me establish an upper limit on volume for an 8' board. It also allows me to compare board volumes to something I know. Without some kind of baseline number I understand, volume numbers become meaningless to me. Of course, the buoyancy of the material in that volume makes a difference and that's another dimension I have no experience with. Anyway, thanks for the recommendation.

Big H wrote:.....or just keep an eye on craigslist and buy the first board that looks good that fits your budget. Nothing is forever and you can always sell it on if you don't like it for probably the same as what you paid.

I'm looking at used and new. Once I find my dream new board, I'll see if an approximation of one shows up on CL. We'll see how my self-control holds out. I do feel like I need to change something in my surfing. I'm tired of snow plowing on my current boards.

Buy the first one that looks good on CL...you can sell it for the same if you don't like it and I am sure that it will be an upgrade on the foamie. No such thing as a perfect board considering the variable environment we ride in, add to that we aren't that good or good enough to discern more than broad strokes in board differences. Lots of longboards are designed as a form of an "all arounder" board, straddling the line between performance and fat log nose rider....grab one of those and go get wet.

Look at this video....great video if you haven't watched it.....specific to this discussion, go to mark 4:55 and start from there for a brief on different features of different kinds of longboards.

Yeah, I second Big H on this:

Big H wrote:Buy the first one that looks good on CL...

Buying new boards is a crap shoot. Until you really know exactly what you want, the only real way to know what works for you is by trying out boards (and fins) in different conditions and seeing what works for you. At least with a used board you're not throwing a few fat bills in the drink as soon as you get the board waxed and wet.

In the past seven years I've owned 25 boards, all but two of which were bought used off of Craigslist. I haven't yet lost money on a single purchase that I eventually resold. Plus, I got try out some pretty fancy boards by reputable shapers only to learn that they didn't meet my needs. Now, I have a pretty slick quiver of boards that I feel are keepers -- until my surfing evolves towards needing/wanting something else.

But, ironically enough, one of the two boards that I purchased new was an 8'6" mini-mal thruster, and it's one of the first boards I ever bought. So go figure...

RinkyDink, how did you like my SouthPoint 8'6" performance longboard? I felt like your 8' Wavestorm paddled way faster than my board due to high volume and flat rocker. Although my board still paddled and caught waves better than your 8' hybrid. The dimensions of my board are 8'6" x 22-1/4" - thickness unknown, but maybe 3"? My board has been out of production for awhile so I cant find any details on volume, but the newer 8'6" models are nearly 70L.

It looks like the TJ Pro is about 60L, the 9' Flex Flight is 70L, and the 9'6" Flex Flight is 80L.

http://slo.craigslist.org/sgd/5849845155.html

TJ Pro might be too small:
http://firewiresurfboards.com/f/forum/board-and-tech-talk/taylor-jensen-pro-everyday/1315-does-the-tj-pro-model-have-enough-volume-for-me

Degree 33 and Paragon Surfboards make (design/import?) some really cheap epoxy longboards. Reviews seem to be mixed though.

Namu wrote:RinkyDink, how did you like my SouthPoint 8'6" performance longboard? I felt like your 8' Wavestorm paddled way faster than my board due to high volume and flat rocker. Although my board still paddled and caught waves better than your 8' hybrid. The dimensions of my board are 8'6" x 22-1/4" - thickness unknown, but maybe 3"? My board has been out of production for awhile so I cant find any details on volume, but the newer 8'6" models are nearly 70L.

It looks like the TJ Pro is about 60L, the 9' Flex Flight is 70L, and the 9'6" Flex Flight is 80L.

http://slo.craigslist.org/sgd/5849845155.html

TJ Pro might be too small:
http://firewiresurfboards.com/f/forum/board-and-tech-talk/taylor-jensen-pro-everyday/1315-does-the-tj-pro-model-have-enough-volume-for-me


Degree 33 and Paragon Surfboards make (design/import?) some really cheap epoxy longboards. Reviews seem to be mixed though.

Hey Namu, I really liked your SouthPoint. I never really got a chance to try out its performance capabilities, though, because my ability was lacking (still is) and the surf was mediocre. I've grown to hate my 8' hybrid board. It's a $100 CL dog. I learned a ton about rocker from it and the Salmon (two opposite rocker extremes ) so they served a good purpose. My hybrid is just a supreme pain in the neck to paddle--it's fairly wide across the nose and has lots of nose rocker in that area--so it's a snow plow as far as I'm concerned. I'd take it out if there were a jet ski to tow me back to the lineup after every ride. Hopefully, I'll be able to make some money back on it.

Thanks for the surfboard recommendations. I'll check those out. I have to admit that I'm currently smitten with the 7'4" Aipa Big Boy Stinger http://phaseonesurf.com/aipa-stinger-ep ... cprkq8pll3 that WKC recommended. The link on that website says the board has "extra volume up front for increased paddle power" and that has me really intrigued. I know the Esteem surf shop down in Pismo carries Aipa boards. Check them out if you get a chance and let me know what you think. We need to go surfing soon. Let's meet at Moonstone Beach one of these days for a session. I miss those Central Coast surf sessions where you could take possession of your own peak.

RinkyDink wrote:I'm considering the Firewire performance longboards (TJ Pro & Flexflight), but I'm hoping to get some other ideas or insight.

Have a look at the Firewire Submoon, I've got the 8'2" that's perfect for me, but I'm 6' @ 165lbs. Maybe you can demo those Firewire's somewhere?

The SUBMOON is the ultimate FUNshape. Designer Nev Hyman explains: “We combined a contemporary rocker and concaves and even thickness distribution with a quirky FUNshape outline that encourages a more vertical shortboard approach to the traditional longboard style of surfing. The outline has generous curve between your feet, which encourages the board to get on rail and TURN! The narrower moon tail provides bite, drive and direction, and the snub nose carries area forward for a bit of tip hang-cheater five FUN.”

This is not a sexy option but consider building skills with one of your current boards. My wife signed me up for an intermediate surf clinic as an Xmas present. The greatest benefit from going to technology training for my work has come from the contacts made. I have a network of friends to help me solve difficult problems and I expect a similar boost from the surf group. Here's the description...

Once out in the water, our experienced instructors will help you to "tackle the lineup" and catch waves in any situation. Your surfing will be progressed from "riding to ripping" as we delve into the key surfing concepts such as wave selection, position, the drop, the bottom-turn, top-turn, and cutback.

Your local surf shop probably offers something like this and it may be worth a look. I also highly recommend WKKKChan's blog http://alohaki.jugem.jp/ which has helped me improve turning skills like "matching my body angle with the angle of the board and rotating my body around the leading arm."

Despite riding the same log for 2 years (8′8″ x 24” x 3.8” and 90 liters) I'm still making progress.

Tudeo wrote:

RinkyDink wrote:I'm considering the Firewire performance longboards (TJ Pro & Flexflight), but I'm hoping to get some other ideas or insight.

Have a look at the Firewire Submoon, I've got the 8'2" that's perfect for me, but I'm 6' @ 165lbs. Maybe you can demo those Firewire's somewhere?

The SUBMOON is the ultimate FUNshape. Designer Nev Hyman explains: “We combined a contemporary rocker and concaves and even thickness distribution with a quirky FUNshape outline that encourages a more vertical shortboard approach to the traditional longboard style of surfing. The outline has generous curve between your feet, which encourages the board to get on rail and TURN! The narrower moon tail provides bite, drive and direction, and the snub nose carries area forward for a bit of tip hang-cheater five FUN.”

Yeah, that board has my attention as well. I really like it. My current obsession with easy paddling is what is driving me to look at other board types. The more I think about it, though, I really just need to go out and try some demos until I find a board that satisfies my need for paddle speed and turning possibilities. I might end up trolling Craigslist again.

BoMan wrote:This is not a sexy option but consider building skills with one of your current boards. My wife signed me up for an intermediate surf clinic as an Xmas present. The greatest benefit from going to technology training for my work has come from the contacts made. I have a network of friends to help me solve difficult problems and I expect a similar boost from the surf group.

I've actually reached the point where I have given up trying with one of my current boards (my other boards are too short for me right now). I finally realized that when I switched back to my Wavestorm one day and had a great session. The takeaway was that I need to find a surfboard I love spending time learning on so I can progress. Right now I'm still riding the Wavestorm till I find the right replacement. As far as lessons go, I think that's a great idea. Once I have my equipment sorted out, I'll probably try a lesson or a meetup group or something.

Have you had a look at the Channel Island Waterhog? I am a heavy 90kg beginner and have it in 8.4x23x3 1/4 with 71l volume. I fidn it very easy to catch waves with, and a good paddler, too. CI builds it in both Epoxy and Polyester.

Oldie wrote:Have you had a look at the Channel Island Waterhog? I am a heavy 90kg beginner and have it in 8.4x23x3 1/4 with 71l volume. I fidn it very easy to catch waves with, and a good paddler, too. CI builds it in both Epoxy and Polyester.

Thanks, that's a cool board. I'm going to put in on my watch list and see if one comes up on CL.