Surfing Waves

So I'm not much of a longboarder but break it out every time the surf is small. Today I used my fish but my neighbor, who is a much better shortboarder than me, took out his longboard.

I was checking out his board and noticed he set it up with a 6inch fin and gx sidebites. I always ride mine with a 9" cutaway and no sidebites (unless I longboard in big waves).

I didn't ask him why, so I am asking here. Would there be an advantage (or disadvantage) to using a small center and the sidebites instead of a big center fin by itself?

Thanks in advance, I am kind of an amateur when it comes to longboarding...

I think the main difference is just the difference between a single fin and a thruster. The reason for using smaller fins when using the 3 fin set up is to keep (roughly) the same overall area of fin as you do with a large single, but spread out over the three fins. If you kept a 9inch centre plus sidebites, you end up with too much fin area (I imagine a lot of drive but hard to turn).

As you will know, the 'purists' say single fin is the way to go; but I think the 3 fin set up is easier to surf.

I surf my long board with a thruster set up vs 2 + 1. I think it turns easier and not as much stomping on the tail and waiting to turn. I have a 9-4 Ben Aipa that's 3.5" thick ( I think) and the board turns pretty darn good. I think the difference between thruster and 2+1 is the thruster has 3 fins that are the same size, smaller typically. Not sure as to why - but that's what works for me. Lots of long boarders in Hawaii go the thruster route vs 2+1 or single but I have found they ride the nose much more in Ca thus using single. I noticed Hi has more performance long boarders than nose riders as well.

A thruster set-up, 2+1 will give you more hold in larger waves and also in steeper waves. It's effective in more powerful surf. You are able to crank bottom turns and drive the board up and to the face of the wave and climb up to come back down for more speed. The set-up also allows the surfer to pump the board if need be. I personally find it more difficult to do cut backs and harder to noseride while it makes it very difficult to turn in the really small and weak stuff. It's easier to do aggressive bottom turns, floaters and drive the board with the wave, so to speak. When I surf in 2+1 on a 9', I use a 6'5 inch center dolphin fin with 2 standard FCS sidebites.

A larger single fin influences your style significantly. It's a less aggressive set-up with smoother turns, easier noseriding capabilities, easier cut backs and a smoother glide of the board. It honestly feels like it forces you to surf with more "style" and "flow". You lose hold in steeper and larger waves but gain a lot in manoeuvrability in weaker conditions. Cutbacks are a sinch, just look where you are going and you do it, easy drop-knee turns and friendlier for nose riding. Paddling is good too. It feels mellow too. My set-up for single fin is the pic I have as an avatar - it's a 9' flex fin on a 9' board. I'd like to try my 9' with two tiny knub sidebites like UncleJaffa has but at $90 a set, it makes for an expensive experiment!

That said, the shape of the tail of the board, the vee(s) on the bottom, the shape and hardness of your rails and the fins all work in conjunction. So a 2+1 might work like a charm on one board while a single fin on the same board will not. Nevermind the size of the fin, the flex etc... It all depends doesn't it!

They're two entirely different set-ups with two entirely different sensations. I'm undecided on which I prefer at present as I've just really started single finning. I must say that I do like it a lot. I feel like one of the old boys in the surf movies doing arched back cutbacks while standing fully erect. I feel like I actually have some style now instead of just driving the board for more and more speed to make sections.

So try them both and see which you prefer is my final answer. Enjoy the flow!

my board is 9'6 x 3 1/2 x 22 1/2 performance shape, thinned nose and tail, squash tail. I had a long racking 10" fin that allowed for noseriding but was too slow to turn, so I bought a 9" cutaway fin and have been using that for the past few year. I have only used the sidebites a couple of times during big surf (since I usually break out my gun when it's big)

Never thought of using a small fin with sidebites, I like being able to turn but did thought my 9" with sidebites was too much drag. Any thoughts as to what kind to get if that small?

On my 9ft1 I use 7inch centre and 4 inch side fins. It's probably a touch too much fin (I'm about 185 lb) but if I move the centre fin forward a bit from 'normal' it turns really well, so not an issue. Plus the fins are fairly flexible, not stiff. For a longer board like yours, I reckon something similar would be about right for a 2+1 set up. Whether it gives you something you like, who knows.

For a thruster, you probably want M7 fins all round, like the MR blue fins (can't remember exactly their name, will look it up later). But this will be quite a bit less fin than a 2+1. For better or worse.

6.5 to 7" center fin, move it up all the wave up front with 4" sidebites. That should do it. If it's too loose, move the center fin backwards by an inch or so, see how that goes, and adjust. If again the board is too loose, back more, too tight, forward more.

Thruster set-up I used standard FCS 4" fins but I know you like your fins and to play around with them so try some of your 4-5" and see how they go if you want to try the thruster style.

Enjoy!

dtc wrote:For a thruster, you probably want M7 fins all round, like the MR blue fins (can't remember exactly their name, will look it up later).

MF-1 PC

http://www.surfstitch.com/eu/en/product ... t-natural1

pico_train wrote:6.5 to 7" center fin, move it up all the wave up front with 4" sidebites. That should do it. If it's too loose, move the center fin backwards by an inch or so, see how that goes, and adjust. If again the board is too loose, back more, too tight, forward more.

Thruster set-up I used standard FCS 4" fins but I know you like your fins and to play around with them so try some of your 4-5" and see how they go if you want to try the thruster style.

Enjoy!

Just looked up my sidebites, I have both GX and GL sidebites, GX are 3.8" so maybe I will try the setup, I can pick up a 6 to 6.5 fin and try it

I was at my local shop and the local shaper came up with a cheap alternative!

They sell a center box to FCS converter for $16 online. I have a set of PC7 fins from my fish, gonna try that center fin with GX sides, and also have a set of GL sides if I feel like it. Good deal

He says that some of the locals use size 7 fins on the sides with no center on small days. I guess I have a lot to try now...

IB_Surfer wrote:I was at my local shop and the local shaper came up with a cheap alternative!

They sell a center box to FCS converter for $16 online. I have a set of PC7 fins from my fish, gonna try that center fin with GX sides, and also have a set of GL sides if I feel like it. Good deal

He says that some of the locals use size 7 fins on the sides with no center on small days. I guess I have a lot to try now...

That's cool. I may get me one too.

I have a 9'6" HP with 2+1 set up. I have tried it as a single, tri with all 3 fins 3.5", 2+1 with 7" & 2+1 with 8". All worked okay but 2+1 with the 8" center gives me the most drive out of turns. All turn about the same.

Here is a picture of my set up and a link to my fin primer just for everyone to get information to draw their own conclusions, viewtopic.php?f=9&t=16523&start=20

So I bought the FCS converter and ran the board with GX sidebites and a 5" center fin. Worked good, easy paddle and enough hold on small waves, and held up fine but only surfed about chest high.

However, I put back my 9.5" cutaway center fin, and took of the sidebites, and liked that better, seemed to turn and paddle a bit easier.

So, performance wise, the fcs conversion did not really improve anything, but it is another good option for anyone that wants to try other setups.

good extra information, IB shows the most important thing: Each set up works uniquely for the surfer's personal skill and choices , htere is no one size fits magic bullet>

This is what I've got on my 8'4 BIC.. I haven't got a clue but I'm thinking of taking off the sides this weekend just to see how it feels, I've a sneaking suspicion it's over finned but at my level prob makes no difference!!!

Its hard to tell whether its 'over finned' without knowing the length of the fins (although first impression is that there is a lot of fin there!), but in any case the classic sign of too much fin is that the board is really hard to turn. As in, you twist and lean and the board keeps going straight. Goes nice and fast straight, but straight. You quickly realise why this is called being 'stiff' - although if you have only surfed the board with those fins, you may not realise that its stiff, you might just think that is normal. If you are able to ride your board across the wave, then you are at the level where you will notice the difference if you loosen up the board.

So its always worth taking out the side fins and seeing what difference it makes. It wont do any harm, if its a disaster then its just a session (or you can go back in and re insert the fins.). How long is your centre fin? If its under 8 inches, I would wait for some not so big waves to give this a go (waist high or so would be nice), just in case you end up without much hold at all.

One tip, well works for me, is that if you take the side fins out, move the centre fin back a little bit in the fin box. maybe an inch or so to start off with. This will give some extra hold to compensate for the loss of the hold from the side fins. Yours already looks fairly far back, but even so I would probably move it back a bit; see how you go. Next session move it forward 1/2 inch and see how that feels. Or even go the whole hog and move it forward 3 inches and see what happens (my board turns into a demented squirrel when I do that). But its all learning and information gathering.

And even if you go back to using the side fins, move the centre fin forward a bit and see how that feels.

My view is that going from too much fin to about the right amount makes a huge difference to the board. Playing around with fin stiffness and rake and materials etc etc is the next stage, but the 10 or 20% difference it might make to a board isn't much benefit if you are only surfing the board at 50% anyway - you may notice it, but the change may not be worth the effort.

I have a sneaking suspicion that a lot of people play around with fins because they love tinkering, but you cant tinker with your board other than your fins. I'm totally guilty of this myself, just bought a new set of fins to try out over Christmas...for no reason other than to see what happens.

Test suggestion from Uncle Jaffa, rough rule of thumb centre fin 1" per foot of board try it as a single and move the fin forward for looseness and back for tight, if you have side bites in then do not a awall of fin make sure the centre fin is not up with the rear of the side bites.
have a read of the thoughts in the fin primer.

Guys thanks so much! Much food for thought, DTC you're absolutely spot on, I get home from work and coz I know I won't be surfing till the weekend I'm on here reading or looking at my board wondering how I can improve!

I took some more photos of the fins as I was measuring to show how I was doing it but didn't want to flood this thread initially with pics of my kookiness. The base of all the fins is about 4.5" and the centre fin is 8" tall.

Really interested in that fin box converter so later on I can experiment with running a thruster set up and feel the difference with 3 equal sized fins (I can hear Uncle Jaffa shaking his head and crying a bit) don't worry mate I'm going for the single fin option first!! I know how you love em! Actually it was your PIC of the two baby bites on the side that I'd really like to try but ain't splashing that kinda cash yet! Yup DTC I'll be tinkering away I guess!

I'm at the level at the mo where I can take nearly every wave I go for, I'm heading down the line and trying out a few turns, I'm often held back because of the waves so by the time I'm up and trying to learn the next step the wave is petering out or I'm going down the line but in a whitewater/reform kinda wave. The beach break at tramore doesn't often throw up great waves on the days when I go but when it does I'm up and riding green waves and finding it much much easier (when I select the right ones and take off in the right spot of course!) I'm under no illusion that I have a long long looooong way to go in my surfing but I think I will feel the difference alright and I'm loving eery minute of it, really is nothing like it!

Jaffa I've read your fin primer many a time in my lurking days and went back and read it again. All the advice is so great to have, really great to share, thanks. One thing that's always confused me slightly is that the foils of the opposing side bites must be actually fighting each other as you move forward?? (Mostly while paddling I'd imagine) the direction of drag for each is forward and to the outside of the board?!

Which leads me to another thing I've 'felt' in my surfing. (Sorry for mammoth reply..am late for work but can't stop now!) As I paddle out I've noticed a tendency for the board to 'crab' slightly, I thought I'd positioned my head or aligned my body wrong but shifting around moved me off my centre of balance so don't think that was it (could be wrong) could it be that one fin is winning out in the equal struggle for lift at the back of my board and constantly pulling me slightly askew? Just a thought Really interested to see if removing the sides eliminates it!

DTC I haven't much choice of waves here! They're all about waist high and blown out, close out mush on most days but I'm gonna give all those options a go and report back! I rode exactly the same board up in lahinch on some big waves and I positively rocketed along, no problem turning with THAT power behind me still don't really know what I'm doing but learning all the time. Forgot to look at the fin set up though which was a shame.

Anyway thanks again and congratulations for reaching the end of this epic post

Jester wrote:As I paddle out I've noticed a tendency for the board to 'crab' slightly, I thought I'd positioned my head or aligned my body wrong but shifting around moved me off my centre of balance so don't think that was it (could be wrong) could it be that one fin is winning out in the equal struggle for lift at the back of my board and constantly pulling me slightly askew?

By 'crab' do you mean go left/right to the direction you were intending to paddle?
If so, that'll be the water you're paddling across and not the board.
You do seem to me (a shortboarder, so don't take my word for it) to have a lot of fin in there, so that might make it worse as there is so much for the water to push against.