Surfing Waves

Hey Hey! i have a 9'6" walden magic model (my only high performance longboard) and ive recently taken the sidebites out and put in a 9" fluid foil fin (http://www.ronjonsurfshop.com/store/item.aspx?ItemId=151869)<--- link to fin

ive never personally ridden a "HP" longboard with a single fin setup, and wanted to know what the experts (you guys) think, if it should be longer/wider/fatter , i know the general rule is 1" of fin for every 1' of board but the only fin that i have bigger than my fcs fluid foil 9" is a Ez-Kine hook 9" thats black composite. ( its the same length just a little beefier throughout )

ez-kine hook 9" (http://www.islandwatersports.com/shop/shop/details/569/97/surf/fins/longboard-fins/9in-hook-ez-kine-fin)

reason for going from 2+1 to single fin: im not into "pr0gressive" rip tear and shred longboarding (although i love how precise the magic model is carving or on the nose) and i want to work on trimming/noseriding so single fin was a no brain-er. I don't want to have to pump and carve little "S" turns all the time just to make the wave or do a maneuver, so im thinking i may just use the biggest fin i have (the ezkine) and go from there. really want to get the most drive/trimm speed out of the wave! because with the what, 5-6" box fin and side bites you have to surf the magic model like a shortboard or you wont make the wave.

all your info's will be greatly appreciated, iam going to take the board and bolth the fins out for an afternoon session today at Terra Mar in Carlsbad Ca. (should get bigger later when the tides down here in socal 2-3 occ 4, perfect kooky waves for a kook!)


thanks for your time!

Bio Mikethelogger,you've got yourself a set of centre fins, go experiment, the answer is what suits your unique style!

have a read of my fin primer and see if there is advice there for you. You can still ride however you like with side bites, they do not force you to be aggressive or progressive, it is all down to personal preferences ,have the fun of experimenting, it will enhance your surfing.

For what its worth. I have a 9'1" longboard which leans more toward being a performance board. I had an 10 1/2" centre fin and side bites and took the side bites out and replaced it with a 7.8" fin. We had bloody ripper 4'-5' pearlers today at Noosa. This seemed to be a great fin for ripping. I have found though that it seems to be better with the fin all the way back in the fin box.

thanks for the input!, will read into your fin guide aswell! OK so yesterday i went to the point break hoping for 2-3+4 surf and it was more like 1-1 occ 2 haha so i didnt get to get much testing of the fins i had. So what i did was used the biggest fin i had the ezkine hook 9" set all the way back in the box, took off on the first little 2 footer and i could notice the drive right away, even in the ankle slappers! before with the 5 or 6" center fin and side bites i would really have to pump and surf rail to rail to stay on a little wave like that (and stay ahead of the curl) now with single fin it was just 1.paddle 2.stand 3.set the line/rail 4. fly across face trimming/noseriding, like the huge glassed on single fin logs i really love, but on a super light and responsive board.

As far as point breaks and nice long waves go, i don't see any reason to use sidebites on my longboards as i get much more pleasure from riding smooth/drop knee turns and of course toes on the nose!

jaffa1949 wrote: You can still ride however you like with side bites, they do not force you to be aggressive or progressive

very true jaffa! you can surf anyway you want with the sidebites, but! if you want to Just trim and Noseride and get the most speed from the wave without riding rail to rail (like a shortboard) then single fin is far faster while going straight across the wave (no turns) or noseriding, the sidefins set at the angle they are make speed while turning, but creates drag in the water while going straight or noseriding. Id even go as far as saying a longboard will paddle a fraction faster with no sidebites aswell!

thanks again for your info! ill be going surfing again today (waves should be bigger) 3-4 so they say, probably going to just leave the ezkine hook 9 all the way back and see how she does on a wave taller than my kneeeees!

Hi again Mikethelogger, let's help you get those logger rhythms , it's true a single paddles faster than multiples in the fin department. I am in my own unique way having great success in improving my nose riding with a pair of the smaller FCS Bonzer quad fin set as side bites.
They do not slow paddling noticeably and semm IMO to add down line speed to the board , they have enabled me to ride nosely for longer in different situations and hold a better line, I like to whack the top occasionally and they release enough for that and I have ridden them as small as my local can be ridden.
I am a weighty guy so all is good and the guys I surf with have noticed the improvement not just floating on my own opinion!

Very happy with what I am currently achieving, but as always horses for courses

Just got back from an extremely nice afternoon session at terra mar pretty much perfect rights 3 to 4 foot occ 5-6 with the bigger sets, extremely low tide (all the shoebies on the reef looking at the tide-pool life )

took the walden with the same fin and really had a blast! i dont think im going to touch the fin one bit, the 9" ezkine is the fastest setup ive used with my walden 9'6" for speed (not maneuverability) it really changes the board completely like i thought it should, usually on days like today i would surf from top to bottom to top throw in a cut back (if im lucky) and still keep with the curl. But today the walden felt like i wanted it to, left-right take offs and straight to the nice trim spot to set up for 5, and the most crisp drop knee turns! really a classic ride with all the modern rails rocker and a diamond tail i think its turned into my favorite board again! my other turn to board is a 10' Donald Takayama DT-2 with double glass, but it has rather large sidebites for bigger surf im sure, but it doesnt go down the line like the walden did today (and the DT-2 should go faster) but the 10' does cross step much better (found myself mixing a cross step to trim and a shuffle/slide to noseride on the magic today )

im super stoked, i only get to surf weekends now so im pumped to chance perfect waves to test this board (i dont like to surf it in small surf, the rocker on the magic model pushes too much water when paddling for the 1-2 stuff, and i am a bigger guy aswell 6'2" two hundred something so it really takes a wave/work to get me going on the walden when it had sidebites, now its a rocket for front 1/3 board trimming one of the 5's i had down generated so much speed on the inside hollow section,that i fell back on the board almost! really is a change of riding style, no lip slapping no sliding and no airs maybe on the kick out

but yeah thanks again for letting me know about your fin primer jaffa good stuff to read up on!
ive only used o'fish'l basic sidebites in HP longboards and glassed in sidebites with the same style on more classic logs and they bolth gave me the same type of push from the wave that had me wanting more when i had to beat sections of curl. now i dont have to do manuevers to get speed, i do them to keep me in the curl (how classic long boarding on straight fast single keeled boards was done) but im just into that type of surfing and have been the past couple years now, just havent messed with my fin setup much on my HP board

thanks again maybe ill try my 9" fluid foil if its going to be big again!

Victory at sea!
Isn't it great when you get your board doing its stuff

Been trying to fine a pic of this 9" Eskine youve mentioned. Any chance you could show a pic of it or a link to see one.
Cheers
Craig

hunsta wrote:Been trying to fine a pic of this 9" Eskine youve mentioned. Any chance you could show a pic of it or a link to see one.
Cheers
Craig

Hi Hunsta paddle up to the top of the thread, Mike posted this
http://www.islandwatersports.com/shop/s ... z-kine-fin

jaffa1949 wrote:

hunsta wrote:Been trying to fine a pic of this 9" Eskine youve mentioned. Any chance you could show a pic of it or a link to see one.
Cheers
Craig

Hi Hunsta paddle up to the top of the thread, Mike posted this
http://www.islandwatersports.com/shop/s ... z-kine-fin

Doh didnt notice that.
Cheers
Craig

NO wukkas Hunsta, BTW I've had to pull my head in a couple of times where I've missed the obvious.
Wet in Gympie again?

miketheLogger : I have a similar fin (wooden laminated 1960's) to the second you have posted - it is solid and awesome with no side bites on the surfboard to which it is it is attached . . . the rig rips and blows all the stunt monkeys out of the water. Single fin of this shape rocks.

Alert!

First post on SW, I found this thread (and Uncle J ' s fin primer) in researching a recommendation from an acquaintance who has steered me right in the past.
I am 6' (one fathom) x 170#, currently riding a 9'2" poly Walden Magic with the 2 + 1 setup - I believe a 6' center with some toe-in to the side bites.
Primarily paddling hard into glorious New Hampshire beach break, most often in knee to waist high wind swell, I rarely make the two hour drive for less than an 8s period, and Sunday morning it was gorgeous 2-3' glass at 8 seconds. I caught more than I missed, but with the rocker of the Magic slowing me some (compared to the 10' flat logs so common in these parts) I am open to any advantage in paddling speed.
(Also conscious of the need to paddle smarter, rather than exclusively harder, experimenting with the 'cork' takeoff and will be reminding myself to start with a few slower strokes so as not to waste my puff, per Uncle J ' s advice elsewhere)
At any rate, one relatively outspoken and friendly chap we'll call Francois (as that appears to be his actual moniker), whom I've often observed making the most of all conditions, selecting waves with alacrity and styling them in with apparent ease, frankly offered, "you should try an FCS Fat Boy as a single fin on that board. I only ride the 2-and-1 when I'm out in California."
I didn't get a chance to interrogate his rationale further, at the moment, but the more I think and read on the question, the more psyched I am to try the single larger fin: and the fat boy seems to be a fine specimen.

I presume the California comparison refers to the typically more powerful and probably larger surf on the left coast. F, at about 5'6" and maybe 160 was riding what looked like a 7'6" Mega Magic with the Fat Boy skeg, and I presume this is the same rig with he goes 2+1, out west (presumably in larger surf).

Also, when Wingnut was out here last summer, I recall he derisively referred to the 2 + 1 as 'cock-and-balls,' as in, "no cock and balls for me, I go with a single." Granted, this would be on different boards altogether, and I believe one of his demo quiver in 'Art of the Longboard' had 2+1, but at any rate I am happy to simplify my setup and press any advantage.

At this point I am very much working on the basics: I'm catching waves and often getting turned down the line, sometimes staying nicely ahead of the curl but just starting to sometimes feel that it's anything to do with trimming or otherwise on my part: increasing my awareness of where I am in relation to the whole wave, and where I'd like to be. I may employ my 12 year old as a videographer, to really find out what's what

My hope is that losing the side bites will reduce drag and allow the foil to provide some extra drive (?) to get me back out to the shoulder when a closeout has souped up the works. It may well be that I am dropping too low, attempting a bottom turn on diminutive humps when I should perhaps be paddling at more of an angle and trying to stay higher across the face.

I have had the board kicked out from under me by a closeout as I was headed for the shoulder, and I hope this deeper keel might let me stay in trim a little longer in such a situation.

All that said, an 8" Fat Boy should ship my way tomorrow, and I will report back any findings, when the next significant swell hits northern New England.

miketheLogger wrote:the sidefins set at the angle they are make speed while turning, but creates drag in the water while going straight or noseriding. Id even go as far as saying a longboard will paddle a fraction faster with no sidebites as well!

Tried quad trailers as sidebites (forget the actual height inch size, but the fin set was M/L) and had noticeable drag in paddling but much better hold on the wave....too good for the day actually, 4-5ft fat faces where I was didn't need the hold in I was getting.....tried Jaffa's bonzer sidebite 2+1 setup and found a happy medium with very little paddle drag that I noticed but definitely more traction esp. in bottom turns...have been following his advice and only using when the waves get around head high at the beaches I ride the longboard (not overly fast/steep/jacking/powerful).

Uncle Jaffa saw this and has arrive for his two cents worth!

Single fin less drag.... About an inch per foot of board! Cut away , fat boy, dolphin the Roy Stewart BLEF .

If I have side bites they are for what I consider my challenging hi octane surfs.
The side bites. FCS bonzers ( the smaller pair) the cant and toe in work with the channel bottom of my board.
I like how it works for me!

I'm going to look at the walden on the web, I'm not convinced about the rocker slowing you.
It is more likely your paddling position . Be right back!

No 9'2" board is going to out paddle a 10ft log, so to get your paddling in order you can look ata number of things?
Positioning on the board, the Rocker is not too much to inhibit you and the PU epoxy will make the board more buoyant Might add about 6" equivalent in paddle power!
The boards nose need to be not more than an inch out of the water , higher than that you are trying to snowplough through the water.

There is quite a discussion on stroke technique elsewhere.

With a PU more buoyant board you need to keep drive on the board as you pass under white water, without active drive the board will just pushed out from under you like a cork.
Wave chatter will also be amplified by the extra corkiness, as the weight will not flatten chop as much.

Recruit that twelve year old get video, that will really expose where the issues are, then real help can begin.
Which beaches in New Hampshire?

Usually Jenness Beach in Rye, otherwise Long Sands in York, ME or a longer trip to Newport, RI (2nd beach). I've only had reasonable beach access for the past year, having previously enjoyed maybe a dozen one- or two-day efforts over 20 years, in random conditions on long roadtrips from a land-locked state - and am so thankful for internet forecasting! I typically triangulate between swell info, magic seaweed and surf-forecast, and am usually able to show up when it's even close to good.

My Walden is a hand-shaped number, made in California: by 'poly' I meant non-epoxy, perhaps I misspoke? I have to admit it was the Mexican blanket inlay that caught my eye, but then when I read more about the shape, and saw a lot of them at the beach under experienced feet, it seemed like it might be a good trainer that would remain relevant when one day I titrate down to the shorter stuff. It's not as easy a paddle as the 9' epoxy I also have access to, or the 10' log I borrowed, but I love the lively feel of it versus the stiff floatiness of the others. I spent a lot of time on popout Hobie sailboards in my youth, and enjoy the otherness of this handcrafted work of art, even if it is a 'one-design' shape.

I am attentive to position, and felt like Sunday I was in the 'sweet spot' more often than not. Paddling doesn't feel like a problem as much as an area for refinement, and the fin thing is just something that came up thanks to Francois. I'm up for any improvement in the system, and still plenty to learn on paddling, and position relative to both the board and within the lineup. I am satisfied with paddling progress, so far though, catching enough that what keeps me up at night is the next phase of turning consistently early and getting something going on on my way across the face.

Planning to return the 8" fin and pick up a 9", the local shop has one. Can't wait to try it out, but little swell on the horizon so far.

Thanks for the quick reply. Let me know what you think about that rocker, although I'm gonna keep working with what I got. El Zarape!

Just a heads up here there is another surfer from the forum inhabiting Jenness beach could a mutual SW session in the offing. I'll ask him and see!

Fat Boy follow-up: I ended up employing the 8" number on my 9'2" for several sessions - and thought maybe I noticed easier paddling withthesingle than the 2 + 1, and definitely noticed a groovier feel turning .. . However at a time when other factors are just falling into place it's hard to know how much is fin vs. other factors, e.g stance, better waves, increasing sang-froid.

At any rate, I finally sprang for the 9" Fat Boy andfirst used it on a smaller day, unwisely riding too far in and 'touched bottom' with the apparently delicate 'performance glass' fin, grinding a nice little not-quite-symmetrical notch into the front.

Given that I am disinclined to discontinue working the smaller stuff that breaks shallow, especially in August when that's often all there is, I plan to be more circumspect in fin choice depending on the day, maybe returning to the 8" Fat Boy or the plastic 2 + 1 setup (which also has an 8 in thecenter) when it's smallest. (I like seeing what's the smallest I can catch, when small is all there is)

Meanwhile as I continue to consider a longer board for various reasons, I don't look forward to the greater risk of dinging a 10" skeg. Perhaps the increased float and glide will let me catch waves so much farther out the back that I will acquiesce to less kooky style, and kick out at a reasonable moment (or at least before I'm sprawled across the sunbathers ). . . But we shall see.

There is a pull out technique you can use to save your fin under some circumstances .
Island pull out or standing island pull outs.
At the critical point on the small ( for you to figure out) run down to the nose plant your weight down hard on the inside rail you can grab the outside rail and pull the nose round into the face of the wave through the face and out the back of the wave = island pullout. Do it standing island pull out!

What you have done is lift the fin free of the bottom so no fin damage!
You can also ride straight in and run down the nose raising the fin but that can break two noses, yours and the board as you are catapulted face first onto the beach at about running speed
It can be done though failure amuses beach goers greatly!

I may work on the walk off the nose just to practice walking anyway, last two sessions I just rocked the 2+1 because it was intact, and digthat too, but picked up some sun cure to fix the notch and will probably return to single soon, see if I can feel the diff.