Takayama in the pink...tough paddle

[Lebowski]

I haven't ridden your particular board, but I do ride a Visionary 9'1 performance longboard with only 60L volume (80ish kg). It too paddles relatively poorly when compared to a log with much more volume.

Obviously I'm just making guesses here as none of us have seen you surfing, but 73L at your weight is plenty, so I'll say the following;

Make sure you're catching waves from a running start. Longboards have inertia, i.e. if you just do 4 paddles from being stationary then it will barely be moving and you'll probably miss the wave. You need at least 5 or 6+ paddles minimum just to get it up to speed, and you need to time it right so that you've done those 6+ paddles and you're then at the perfect spot to START to catch the wave, the wave is the correct steepness etc. So positioning is important, yourself and the wave need to converge at the right spot when you're already up to speed. If you just try the explosive BAM BAM BAM shortboarder style then you'll need to be right at the most critical part of the wave and you'll probably blow the take off.

I would say forget about the S paddling technique. I've tried it, it feels wrong and slower in my opinion. I also don't paddle with my fingers together as it puts strain on my forearms. Just let your hands relax. Your hand has the same surface area whether your fingers are together or apart.

But mainly concentrate on the first point. It's amazing what little ripples you can catch on a longboard when it's at full paddling speed.

[tommykrebs]

Yes, I understand the idea from a running start. And I tried it. And it works. Sometimes. And than I see longboarders waiting for the wave to lift the tail and hop on, with more or less with no paddling at all. And everything in between. I wish I could stick with a method that works for me.

Today, at the new spot, Praia da Barra (south of Porto), I watched longboarders surfing a nice lefthander wave. Most paddled very fast before they reached the peak. When I paddle, I do a long stroke. I cannot speed this up like they do. It's too much of water I have to push or move.Thats the reason I cannot get many paddle strokes done and it feels slow too. With a smaller board I have the feel I'm not moving at all. Thats why I thought a longboard needs a running start but others say don't paddle in the flat because its wasted energy.

Tomorrow I will have my very first lesson ever. I'm interested what's wrong with me. Must be something wrong, because you can surf world class with just one arm. I will let you know.

[tommykrebs]

Make sure you're catching waves from a running start. Longboards have inertia, i.e. if you just do 4 paddles from being stationary then it will barely be moving and you'll probably miss the wave. You need at least 5 or 6+ paddles minimum just to get it up to speed, and you need to time it right so that you've done those 6+ paddles and you're then at the perfect spot to START to catch the wave, the wave is the correct steepness etc. So positioning is important, yourself and the wave need to converge at the right spot when you're already up to speed. If you just try the explosive BAM BAM BAM shortboarder style then you'll need to be right at the most critical part of the wave and you'll probably blow the take off.

That's the problem, the steeper the wave, the quicker the take off has to be. I wouldn't say that my take off is slow but I have no experience with a late take timing and I will very likely miss it. I would prefer to paddle ealier and harder to catch a wave earlier get more time for the take off but 99,5% of all waves I paddled for, it didn't worked.

My typical day in the line up is like this: Gone... gone... gone.....aaaaaalmost...arrrrrgh...gone...OH TOO LATE. ...nope...not today.....Ah, here comes the girl who gets every wave (I hate you...a little)... no power left... aaaand gone....maybe tomorrow...

[BaNZ]

My typical day in the line up is like this: Gone... gone... gone.....aaaaaalmost...arrrrrgh...gone...OH TOO LATE. ...nope...not today.....Ah, here comes the girl who gets every wave (I hate you...a little)... no power left... aaaand gone....maybe tomorrow...

As others said, we will need some footage. I've surfed with some of my friends who are beginners. I would hear they talk about waves sucks, too busy or their board isn't good. Then when I look at their form, paddle, spot in lineup, they have no idea what they are talking about.

For point break, being 2-3 feet away from the right spot could mean that you're not going to catch it. When the others are hardly paddling yet making it so easy. For those surfers that are doing it easily, you need to ask them how long have they been surfing.

Depends on how much surfing you do every week. If you surf 2-3 times a week, in about 6 months you will laugh at this post and think this is so easy.

[tommykrebs]

I already spend way more than 300 days in my life paddling for waves in the water. I would say that I have already a good eye for what is too early and what is too late. But I am definitely not good in foreseeing what is closing out before I start paddling.

[waikikikichan]

1. I tried this without any positive result. Why should it work better?
2. small amount vs large amount? How can I tell? It's always the same stroke.
3. into the cobra pose when I feel the glide. But not always.
4. are my teeth grinding, do I not breath? Probably.

I tried to paddle softer. Looks even worse. Why should I get the wave with less effort? You are slower.

1) then is your fingers together technique "working" ? It not so much the surface area of cupped or spread fingers, but the muscles engaged and the tension in you arms/neck it creates.
2) Your stroke needs to constantly find "new water". How can you tell ? Look at the bad paddlers that their hands are moving fast but going nowhere compared to the good paddlers that with a smooth paddle that go forward effortlessly.
3) I think your "cobra pose" is killing the drop-in momentum. If you're not pearling, I would chest down on the deck longer.
4) If you look like a boxer being yelled at by his coach to hit the bag 10 more times or bike sprinter crossing the finish line. Teeth clenched - Neck veins popping out, then you are paddling too hard.
If you are NOT breathing, in out in out, on the paddle .......... then that is why you have a weak paddle, get tired quickly and have no power.

There was this MMA pro fighter that surfed at our break. He paddled Furiously. AaarrghHHHH ! like his life depended on it. Giving all he got. But he couldn't catch waves. I would set up next to him, paddle once twice and pop up. He soon realized he was paddling TOO HARD.

[tommykrebs]

4) If you look like a boxer being yelled at by his coach to hit the bag 10 more times or bike sprinter crossing the finish line. Teeth clenched - Neck veins popping out, then you are paddling too hard.
If you are NOT breathing, in out in out, on the paddle .......... then that is why you have a weak paddle, get tired quickly and have no power.

There was this MMA pro fighter that surfed at our break. He paddled Furiously. AaarrghHHHH ! like his life depended on it. Giving all he got. But he couldn't catch waves. I would set up next to him, paddle once twice and pop up. He soon realized he was paddling TOO HARD.

Interesting. But I still dont understand what this means. Too much tension therefore too little efficiency? How do you paddle fast but not too hard? If a sprinter wants to run very fast. Is he relaxed? But I will try to focus on breathing. Good tip.

[tommykrebs]

Your stroke needs to constantly find "new water". How can you tell ? Look at the bad paddlers that their hands are moving fast but going nowhere compared to the good paddlers that with a smooth paddle that go forward effortlessly.

To find "new" water is the reason to paddle the "s-stroke".

[tommykrebs]

3) I think your "cobra pose" is killing the drop-in momentum. If you're not pearling, I would chest down on the deck longer.

The cobra pose is only used when the wave is already carrying me. If I paddle for the wave I lay my chin down on the board to move more weight to the front.

[waikikikichan]

Interesting. But I still dont understand what this means. Too much tension therefore too little efficiency? How do you paddle fast but not too hard? If a sprinter wants to run very fast. Is he relaxed?

Do you know Hockey ? ( I don't, since I'm from Hawaii )

Example #1 Hold an imaginary hockey stick down at your waist with opposing grips. Clench your teeth to the point they squeak, crush the ( imaginary ) stick with your fingers/thumbs, power up like a super hero. Now draw the hockey stick up to shoulder height. Keeping that clenched teeth and crushing grip, rip the stick down for a slap shot.

Example #2 Hold an imaginary hockey stick down at your waist with opposing grips, but this time fingers are just dangling down. Shake out your arms, shoulders, relax. Face is relaxed, breath without thinking about it. Now bring up your hands to shoulder height, keeping the finger outwards. Then just let the arms swing through.

Think about what just happened. Which has more Speed ? Which had more distance / travel ?

Example #3 Do example #1 5 times in succession as quickly as you can.
Example #4 Do example #2 5 times in succession as quickly as you can.

Think about what just happened. Which has more RPM. Which gets you more tired / winded ?

[Geezer]

FWIW, I have a “trick” in my paddle stroke to keep the elbow high on entry. I rotate my arm so that the back of my hand is facing the rail of the board on water entry; doing this makes the elbow pop high naturally. I do this at water penetration then rotate my wrist (not arm but wrist) to catch and pull thru with that elbow high and in the same shape as at water entry.
This “trick” works well esp. when starting to fatigue and losing form; a simple “swing thought” for the paddle stroke that snaps things in place when they start to fade.

One other bit in the video that I think doen’t get talked about enough is the arch when you paddle. Head up and somewhat arched with the nose of the board just above the water allows for board control in that if you flatten out the nose will go down (underwater when paddling flat but will help push down into a wave when paddling in) or nose up when leaning back.

Here’s some detailed “why’s” for you:

[tommykrebs]

Thanks for all the advice.

In Golf I learned it too. Especially when hitting long irons. If you try to hit a long iron with force and with a lot of tension in the hands and the forearms the ball will go nowhere. With an iron you can hit the ball far with no power at all. Let the momentum of the heavy clubhead do the work. It's not easy to believe in it, but the more effortless the swing, the longer the ball is flying. But it took me many years to get there.

I am not sure how to carry this method to my paddling....

[tommykrebs]

Here’s some detailed “why’s” for you:

https://m.youtube.com/shorts/hMmtUsT3RJI

https://youtu.be/JbSVDTpFscU

I paddle like this. I practiced it daily for two month already.

[tommykrebs]

Back from my first lesson ever. First I have to say that next time I will tip the guy with 20€. In Sines the guy wanted 70€/h, in Peniche 60€/h and here Boa Hora 50€/h. But when I asked him how much time is left, he told me 30min and this couldn't be true. He said the lesson is two hours and I answered that I paid only 50€. And that is the price. 50€ for a 2 hour private lesson. IMO too little.

How was it? Very interesting but different than I thought. The place is very nice. Not crowded with several peaks. The wave is mellow and for me the easiest wave I paddled for in France and Portugal so far. I went into the water and he came in a bit later. I paddled on my own and catched the first two waves but couldn't hop on. But I emphasised on being relaxed and breath thru the paddling. So, I'm apparently not too weak. He told me that it is not good to lift the lower legs when paddling for a wave (weight distribution) and I should keep the toes connected with the tail. Did that.

Everything else is fine. Sweet spot, paddling technique, speed (I paddled against him) is enough and my take off is good too. He thinks my board could be a bit bigger and I had tried his longboard, a 9,8ft with a much wider tail than the Takayama. I didn't like it at all. It felt very heavy and it felt difficult to get up to speed when paddling for a wave.

The only thing I was a bit unhappy about was how early he let me paddle for waves. The wave was around 70 to 80m away and I had no feeling for the wave anymore. The timing was never correct and I told him it would be easier for me to paddle a bit later. I think I got the positioning right without him but he knew when to switch spots because suddenly every wave was closing out. Local knowledge is priceless.

At the end of the lesson I learned the most important thing which will change how I catch waves in the future. The second to last wave I paddled for I felt the glide and at the same moment I nosedived. I ask what can I do about it, because I always wait for the "glide" and always think I have to wait for the feeling to glide. At the same time I know that most of the time, it's already too late to pop up. He told me that I have to pop up a tiny bit earlier and the next wave I didn't wait for the glide but anticipated it and hoped on.

This is by far the biggest takeaway from the lesson. To understand the timing of the take off because I couldn't find anything about it on the internet. Because in steeper waves you cannot wait for the glide and I knew this because there is so little time to get on the board. For that reason I was afraid to paddle for steeper waves knowing I couldn't handle the take off in time.

Conclusion: I paddle good, I can catch waves, the take off is fine too and the Takayama is not too small and most probably I had mental issues to catch waves because I didn't know when to pop up and got more and more insecure and paddled in the wrong position (too much at the shoulder to avoid the steeper part of the wave)

Thank you all.

[tommykrebs]

It's almost a month later now I want to let you know how things worked out for me and the Takayama. In my last post I was wrong. I catched one wave in the lesson because I was too late and the wave so steep, that to avoid the nosedive, I took off just before that. I thought that's the key for me to catch waves but in the end I am sitting with the short boarders again because I'm not able to catch waves further out with the other longboarders. Because I am too weak or not explosive enough.

The last month I catched again no waves at all. Zero. I ensured once more that my paddling and my sweetspot is correct and my positioning for the peak also.

Today I did an experiment and counted the seconds how long it will take to accelerate my Takayama in the flat. A minimum of 15 seconds to reach a proper speed (felt the glide). Nice full strokes and no panic short paddling strokes. Then I counted to see how far a wave is away to get to me in 15 seconds. Around 100m. Too far away to see if its worth it to paddle for. I think 50m away is good enough to turn around. I estimate the wave will catch me in around 8 seconds. In 8 seconds I am not able to accelerate my longboard to the required speed to catch it.

I think that's the end of the road for me and at least my Takayama because I can feel that I can do this day in, day out for quite some time without any chance to change something about it. It's just physics.

I can only try to catch waves in a steeper section with my 7ft Fish (Phish). Okay I have to paddle too and the take off is not easier but at least I will not nosedive. Let's see how this will work.

I really thought I am fit enough with 58. Fitter than with 30, for sure. At least to catch a wave with a longboard.

I admit, it's a bit frustrating to accept this.

p.s. Two days ago, in small 3ft waves, I got eight hairline stress fractures in the bottom of the nose. It seems they are in the upper layer of the resin. I'm not sure what to do with it because I will never paddle this board again.

[tommykrebs]

I have question. I know that a longboard is faster to paddle than a shorter board. But what about the acceleration, let's say, the first 15m? Is a heavy longboard still faster than a mid-lenght board on a short distance?

[tommykrebs]

This answers my question above:

Longboarder Ben Considine is paddling for a 2ft wave (sec 21). Amazing how he is able to accelerate the board in just three seconds, when the wave reaches the tail to catch this small wave. Like a Dodge Charger Hellcat. Compared to him I am paddling in super-slowmotion. No wonder I cannot catch anything. Really no wonder.

The video is called "The SECRETS to PADDLING IN EASILY!" Easily.....hahahaha....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-laTpHC5TUU&t=21s

[waikikikichan]

A minimum of 15 seconds to reach a proper speed (felt the glide). Nice full strokes and no panic short paddling strokes. Then I counted to see how far a wave is away to get to me in 15 seconds. Around 100m. Too far away to see if its worth it to paddle for. I think 50m away is good enough to turn around. I estimate the wave will catch me in around 8 seconds. In 8 seconds I am not able to accelerate my longboard to the required speed to catch it.

You should be up to speed in 4 strokes. But that depends on the variable you throw at it. If you are out of position, paddling the "wrong" way for the given moment, paddling too hard, etc. then you might need to take more strokes ( and still not get on the wave )

My advice is to get rid of the In-the-Pink. I hate that board with a passion. The paddling sucks and the nose always catches.

[tommykrebs]

Thank you for your post.

There is no possible way to be up to speed in 6 strokes. When I see Ben paddling, like I saw many surfers in the last months, I cannot make a full paddle stroke this quick. There is no magic trick to it. It is just too much water to push the arm thru and a matter of power and not technique. I am not a swimmer and never was.

In my lesson I tried his 9,6ft longboard with a wide tail. I found it even harder to get to speed. I'm thinking even a 10ft will not help my lack of paddle power. At least my paddle endurance is very good. It is how it is. I feel like 20 but that's an illusion. I think it's time to get fat and lazy and die. haha

I never thought catching a wave could be a problem. But when I bought a BMX bike in my early 50's, I was also sure I will learn a bunny hop too.

[tommykrebs]

hahaha... the video... that's what the swiss guy today suggested. I had a good laugh.