Tom Curren's bottom turn technique?

[alex_k]

I've always loved this photo of Tom Curren's bottom turn:

What techniques is he using to perform this powerful, large-radius carve? His weighting looks somewhat unusual -- his rear foot is well in front of the fins, at least a foot but maybe two, and it looks like his weight is more on the front foot than many photos of other surfers doing a bottom turn on big waves. Anything else specific? And how would one use these observations to practice better bottom turns?

What do you think are the features of his board? What would lead to a board that is effective for making big, powerful, large-radius carves like this? It appears quite long, perhaps not really a short board, maybe even a semi-gun. Do you think it is very thin or not so much, low or high volume, rails of a particular type etc etc?

Thanks everyone!

[dtc]

1. speed. You can't see the wave but I'm guessing its fairly large, and you can see the bottom turn is way out in the flats. So he has maximised his speed by going all the way down the face. Doing an on rail bottom turn with speed isnt actually all that hard, you are using gravity and centrifugal (?) force (I failed year 10 physics) to keep you on the board. Look up Mark Richard's bottom turns (and JJF is 'pretty good' as well). Curren looks good because his arm and body position just has that indefinable style; but the physical act isnt that advanced.

As to the weighting, thats a speed thing as well. If you are going fast you just lean onto the rail and the rocker takes you around. But if you are going slow, and lean onto the rail, the rail will dig and you fall. You still need mostly back foot weighting but not necessarily totally back foot weighting

2. his boards were generally mid to high 6ft, about 18 1/2 wide and 2 1/4 - 2 1/2 thick. So pretty narrow and thin in comparison to today's daily use boards but also much longer. Longer boards go faster

3. a few people I've read suggest that his boards had a rolled vee and thick rails, rather than a concave and thin/knife rails many pros surf today. The latter really helps with rail to rail tic tacky/sharp turn surfing on smaller waves, which is what the pros need. But the former helps with speed and the thick rails means he can really weight the rails without them catching, allowing for those large radius turns. (but keep in mind that JJF in Margaret River 2017, which I think is some of the best surfing in the modern era, was surfing a board with very knifey back rails)

I imagine the rocker also plays a very important roll, and I have no idea what his boards were like on this. I would guess quite a lot of rocker, fairly continuous


So - if you want a good bottom turn, go fast. Maximise your speed by turning on the flats. Maybe use thicker rails (maybe not). But go fast.

Oh, and have strong thigh muscles and solid knees, you get a lot of force through your legs when you get it right.

[waikikikichan]

Bottom turn. Squared off bottom turn. Not reaching out or bracing off a invisible wall but putting out the “feelers” to gauge the angle.
( I zoomed in on the photo, the actual photo shows how far back behind the curl he was and using the bottom turn to sling shot around it )

03663083-85CD-4B57-BF01-63C0A36A57B2.jpeg (37.54 KiB) Viewed 2001 times

[waikikikichan]

" A picture says a thousand words ". But try to see if you can catch that low angled over technique in the video of Tom Curren's first wave every at Jeffrey's Bay, South Africa.

I just love that double pump bottom turn. Style Master.

[dtc]

I love that J bay footage. The 2nd wave in particular. The bottom turns in the wkk linked video from 2 minutes - magic

For what it’s worth his board that day was 6'6"x18 1/4 x 2 5/16.

Mark Rabbidge, who made the board, says is had ‘small boxy-rails, the bottoms were slight roll-bottoms and bonzer concaves between the fins, at the same angle as the fins, and tail-lift jump at the side fins, and another tail-lift jump at the tail fin, all blended together so nothing would catch,”

So no deep concaves, box rails,

https://stabmag.com/style/meet-the-man- ... sterpiece/


Mark Rabbidge lives just up the coast from me. Well, the next town or so up. I’ve surfed with his wife (former world champ Pam Burridge) (as in, been surfing at the same time as her on the same break). So I’m basically surfing royalty I reckon.

While we are going bottom turns, here is a Mark Richards ‘seagull’ turn

[oldmansurfer]

There may be board design elements that go into the bottom turn from TC but I know a few older guys who use the same foot position and I myself use it from time to time. Mostly the guys I am talking about and myself do large carving turns on bigger waves and this foot position is fine for that. When I restarted surfing after not surfing for 12 years I used that foot position as my standard and it seemed to work fine except for smaller radius turns. I have since changed my standard to over the fins but I still do that position if I am trying to get down the face of a wave fast. Good leg strength is important for powerful turns although frontside bottom turns not so much. Backside bottom turns definitely need to have good knees and strong legs.

[alex_k]

Awesome and very helpful thoughts!

This video and article are so cool! Agreed, this is some, maybe the best, surfing I've ever seen.

dtc -- Are there things to consider to improve really weighting the rails, especially when the wave has some power? This is something I've been working on with progress but still not where I'd like to be. I grew up snowboarding, and consistently wish that I could lean as hard as on snow. It's tricky as an intermediate to keep that rail from catching and to implement this has been a long process. Perhaps it is is just a matter of, as you say, maintaining lots of speed. It's also interesting that Rabbidge cites the draw off the reef as a major factor. That suggests that there's a lot of relative motion of water in the flats towards the wave, which might also help create drive.

What do you mean by box rails? I reviewed a bunch of things on rail shapes but didn't find anything that cleared it up too much. Is it more square, like a hard edge at the bottom but also at the deck?

This board sounds like it has some features which a shaper placed on one of mine, after I considered your comments a while ago about fun guns (though Curren's is much narrower and more extreme for a much better surfing on much better waves). When I described my goals to a shaper, I ended up with a board with a lot of rail curvature, pretty wide, and a rolled vee to spiral vee bottom. So thank you again for the helpful wisdom on that!

Waikikichan -- yes, he initiates his turn perpendicular to the wave, or even take a slightly negative angle, and before setting up a major bottom turn he sometimes does a little check turn to set up even deeper. Is this what you mean by low angled over technique? Or are you referring more to his posture? It is a good and interesting observation that he is way behind the curl. Seems like he knows how much drive he can get from this turn, and uses it to sit really deep and extract a ton of power.

oldmansurfer -- interesting and good to know what this placement works for you, especially for making drawn out turns.

Thanks all!

[dtc]

Box rails - probably easier to find if you search for ‘boxy rails’. Basically fuller slightly squared off rails

Eg http://www.naturalcurvesboards.com/html ... rails.html

http://www.sandralamarche.com/hogansurfboards/rails.htm

[alex_k]

Ah cool! Steve Coletta aka Natural Curves shaped me that board I mentioned. It very much figures, having had the privilege of meeting him, that he would have written about this in detail. Very informative and interesting, thanks again.

[waikikikichan]

The Red Beauty was the board back in the mid 80's.

Look at the photo with Tom wearing a bucket hat. That is not a boxy railed 6'6" board.
It's probably a 5'1" x 17 1/4" x 2 1/8" VANGUARD Tomo model

Screenshot 2019-11-11 at 8.46.49 PM.png (299.65 KiB) Viewed 1973 times

Same technique, two way different boards. Indian not the arrow.

It's how you approach the wave, it's how you work with the wave, it's your timing, it's your turn in, it's feeling and dealing with the feedback from the fins, tail and rail.

[billie_morini]

The Red Beauty was the board back in the mid 80's.

Look at the photo with Tom wearing a bucket hat. That is not a boxy railed 6'6" board.
It's probably a 5'1" x 17 1/4" x 2 1/8" VANGUARD Tomo model

Screenshot 2019-11-11 at 8.46.49 PM.png

Same technique, two way different boards. Indian not the arrow.

It's how you approach the wave, it's how you work with the wave, it's your timing, it's your turn in, it's feeling and dealing with the feedback from the fins, tail and rail.

This screenshot was definitely shot at Rincon in northern Ventura County, California. Mrs. Morini, Roxy Ridgeback, and watched surfers there yesterday at about 13:00 and waves after dark at about 19:00. Rincon is known as the "Queen of the Coast," and I am looking forward to attending the annual Rincon Classic in early 2020.