Surfing Waves

Thank you in advance for answering my posts. I wanted to write back in my last post, but I am so slow writing that I never actually finished my replies so an extra thank you to anyone taking time.

My question may have nothing or everything to do with rocker. And I am pretty bad at measuring rocker, also I don't quite understand some of the descriptions such as low entry vs. relaxed? Would relaxed just imply that the transition between the lowest and highest part of the curve is less steep, so a 6' board with a 5" nose rocker would be relaxed if the lowest point is closer to the nose? and if you push that point further back it is more aggressive? Where as low rocker say a 4 1/2" nose rocker on the same board could still be adjusted to be relaxed or aggressive?


My issue at the moment is that I recently picked up a ...Lost Sub scorcher in good condition and for a very reasonable price with the hopes of replacing a very beat up old board. My two previous short boards have been LT viper fish hybrid, and a Channel Islands OG Flyer, both of the which, although different worked great for me right from the start.

The ...lost is in similar dimensions and designed for the same smaller/average quality waves. I was hoping that performance-wise I would end up with a mix of the two boards I already liked but after 4 sessions this isn't working for me. My first time out I had to do a lot of the "Huntington hop" I believe its called almost all the way to the beach to get enough speed to get in a bottom turn. The waves were stomach high but mushy mid-tide, maybe a touch too weak. The other 3 session I can catch waves but with a lot more effort than I am used to, I feel like I am not accelerating as quickly for the last few strokes into the wave face.

I also find that I am timing my take off later and later which would indicate to me that this board is too small but its so similar in outline, length and volume that I am wondering where I messed up. Although its intended for the same wave type is the rocker or other design element intended for above average surfers? Or is this an older model so it should be sized a bit longer than the current trend for the ideal planning surface area in the water? I would like to figure out what design elements work for me.


I am 6' tall, weight between 177-183 lbs depending on soon after Thanksgiving/Christmas/New Years time. Surf a couple of days week, good fitness.

The boards for comparison.
Channel Islands OG Flyer 6' x 19 3/4 x 2 9/16 32.6 Liters Squash Tail. Pointy nose thruster
staged Rocker, Aggressive Entry low tail rocker. Single to double to vee. The double is pretty deep.

LT Viperfish? 6' x 20 1/4" x 2 7/16" 31L fishy outline with narrower diamond tail, looks similar to Channel Islands Rocket 9 outline if it had a different tail. thruster
Low nose and tail rocker and looks pretty flat in center (maybe staged?) Single to double to vee.

...Lost Sub Scorcher 6' x 20" x 2/5" 32.1 Liters Squash Tail.
"Starting with a SD2: We squashed the dims, lowered the entry rocker and shallowed the concave through the center to straighten the rail line for drive and make it easier to lay such a wide platform over on a rail. "

I also read that this is also a "gentle continuous" rocker. With a lot of tail kick, the nose also doesn't look particularly low compared to the Channel Islands Flyer. Very mellow double concave.

Ok, disclaimer: I haven't ridden either of these boards, so I can't talk from direct experience. Nor am I a shaper (who would probably be better equipped to give you more detail about the rocker characteristics). But, I have a couple of thoughts that might still be of some use to you.

1) Nose rocker and tail rocker both affect the paddling. Less rocker (lower entry/exit) typically makes for easier paddling. More rocker helps in steeper, hollow surf. For comparison, I ride a 6'1" Lost Mini Driver (as a step-up) and it really performs best in punchier surf, bigger conditions, or strong offshore winds. I also ride a 5'7" Lost Puddle Jumper (very low rocker throughout) and it's great as a groveller up to shoulder high+ or so. Despite shapers trying to sell just about every board as a "one-board quiver" it's definitely easier getting the PJ into smaller, softer waves.

2) From my understanding, the Sub Scorcher is intended to be ridden slightly smaller than your standard shortboard. Since you're riding it the same size as your OG Flyer, you may need to adjust your positioning to get into waves earlier - maybe try getting a little more forward than you're used to? Not sure what the difference is between their midpoints and foam distribution, but you might look at that as well.

3) I don't know what a "viperfish" is, but most fish shapes, as well as the OG will accommodate neutral or front-footed surfing styles. Supposedly the Sub-scorcher is more suited to back-footed surfing. Which do you tend to be? If you're more front-footed, this may be why you had an easier time generating speed on your other boards, but it won't explain why you're having a harder time paddling.

4) I doubt it's a fin issue, but the toe and cant of fins can cause drag. I had a board that was an absolute dog with the Nexus H-2's and a local shop suggested swapping them out with a less-canted fin. I didn't think it would make that much difference but I threw in an old set of plastic G5's just to try and it really affected the paddling a lot.

5) Last but not least, it might be worthwhile to contact Lost directly and see what they have to say. I don't know if Matt Biolos will answer you directly, but someone there should be able to speak to your issues.

Anyway, I hope that helps a little. Either way, I'd love to hear what you figure out. Good luck!

roaringblood wrote: My issue at the moment is that I recently picked up a ...Lost Sub scorcher in good condition and for a very reasonable price

So you might want to ask yourself “why the seller wanted to get rid of good condition popular shape/brand for such a reasonable price ?” I don’t think something is “wrong” with the board, but you may want to check. I’ve seen more than one board with a twisted blank. Site down the nose to tail and vice-versa.

Hi thank you for the replies. I am slow with writing so it takes me a while to post. But here is an update.

Update: I took this board out of town to a nice clean shoulder high point break. The thing lit up and surfed like a dream, also took it out in a couple of feet overhead at my local beach break and it worked nicely too. Still doesn't paddle or catch waves quite as easy as the flyer, especially on crappy onshore beach breaks.

@Waikikkichan I checked out the board, nothing major. The price was not a meth head special, but under 200.00 for a board a couple of years old, a little yellow but no dings or major dents.

@Surferbee.
I think you hit the nail on the head about the front foot vs. back foot. I paid more attention to what I was doing with my feet and weight, and when the waves are flattening out or I am barely getting enough speed on my take off I grind my front foot down really hard and I step an inch or two closer to the nose. I think this was what was causing me to bog down on my bottom turn vs. the flyer or viperfish. The last couple of sessions have had pretty decent waves, so I can get in more turns off the back foot vs.constant pumping for speed.

Also I am not ruling out the fins as a culprit for feeling some drag on the board. I kind of wish this was FCS so I could use the M5s I already have since those always felt good when paddling. I really like M5 sides and M3 center on small days. Right now I am running Futures AM1s since they are the only futures we have in the apartment. I haven't been bonkers about these in the past.

Anyways still trying to figure out the board and its design.

There are pluses and minuses for every design element . Any rocker at all essentially shortens the board as far as paddling speed and down the wave speed. But rocker does help with steep curving wave faces. Having rocker in the tail makes the board turn like a shorter board and unfortunately paddle and catch waves like a shorter board. Rocker in the nose shortens the board physically, the nose sticks out of the water and if you push it under you push water in front of the rocker but once you get on a wave the rocker is out of the water (or at least it is supposed to stay out of the water and if it doesn't you stop suddenly) and it rides like a shorter board because it is essentially a shorter board as the nose rocker is entirely out of the water and doesn't contribute to surfing except on steep drops where the nose of a flatter board would pearl. However there are ways to ride boards with little nose rocker on steep waves and not pearl and you can still pearl any board if you treat it wrong. I find boards with little rocker hold speed through turns really well but if I do everything right with a heavily rockered board I can still go fast but they don't catch waves as well but they are much easier to turn.

Last update:
Surferbee:
you were on to something about the fins. I was in car accident and thankfully no one was hurt but my blackstix were destroyed. I picked up a set of Captain Fin CF Mediums and its like a totally different board, feels like someone took the handbrake off. Works really well in the conditions I bought it for.

That’s almost the epitome of a cloud with a silver lining!