Surfing Waves

Hey All,

I started surfing about 5 months ago (about 1-2 times a week) and am loving it. I'm 25 years old, 170lbs (77 kg), 5 ft 11 in. (180 cm). Pretty fit - lift weights regularly and swim 1-2 times a week (though still improving endurance).

I've been surfing a 8'0" 1993 Haut Mini-mal / funshape (closer to a mini-mal I think). Dimensions are 8' L x 22" W x 2 7/8" thick.

I surf in the San Francisco Bay Area (mostly messier beach breaks, unless I'm lucky enough to go to Santa Cruz. Waves can go anywhere from mushy knee high to double overhead but I don't go out when it's higher than overhead). Still very much a beginner, can catch about 5 or so unbroken waves going straight towards the beach (still learning to turn) in an hour if the waves are up to about shoulder high.

Found a 6'6" Firewire Addvance for $250 which seems like a good deal to me and am tempted to get it for learning how to turn and for when the waves are steeper (Can't duckdive my 8'0" making it hard to get out and find that I pearl too often in steeper choppy conditions).

Is 6'6" an ok size given the width/volume (21.5" W x 3" thick) or is it too small (local shaper recommended maybe going around 6'8"-6'10")? Is it too early for me to try this board out? Will the Firewire hold up in steeper conditions even though it's more of a high volume learner shortboard? And finally, is this board too high volume to duck dive?

Thanks!

Have you read through the topics on here Enjoy? There's a lot of really great wisdom already repeated quite a few times for you to glean. I'm a beginner like yourself and it's still flipping awesome learning new things and putting them into practice..try the search function and you'll see what you're asking has been answered many times. Also, listen to your shaper!!! There's wisdom in them there hills

Post how you get on and keep the stoke man!!

enjoy wrote:Is 6'6" an ok size given the width/volume (21.5" W x 3" thick) or is it too small (local shaper recommended maybe going around 6'8"-6'10")?

That'll probably be a bit too small, but not ridiculously so. If you keep on practising for a while on your 8' and get your skills sorted, you should be able to transition to it but...

enjoy wrote:I am tempted to get it for learning how to turn

...is wrong. Turning on a shortboard is easier... when you can already turn. Getting a shorter board will not increase your skillset.

As for duckdiving that board, possible but again, you'd need the skills. The board won't do it for you (incidentally, you have no chance on your 8', so learn to turtle roll).


From what you've said about your experience, I'd say that you should stay on your 8' for a while yet and get the basic skills under your belt.

As a second board the Addvance is a pretty good choice (almost bought one myself before going custom). Whether going to 6ft6 straight away/right now is worthwhile, probably not - I would suggest you need to have greater skills on your current board. For example, perling is rarely a matter of the board and more a matter of skill. Where I surf (Australia) sometimes I'm out on my 7ft4 board and I have the shortest board in the line up - there are a lot of older surfers/casual surfers and longboards are actually the predominant type of board. And some of those guys can catch anything, steep low tide shore breaks or whatever, despite being 60yrs old and surfing 9ft longboards. Admittedly they probably have been surfing since they were 10 yrs old, but clearly its possible to catch almost any wave on a longboard if you have the right skills. Anyway, as pointed out, a shorter board or one with more rocker will make some things easier (and some things harder) but wont just give you the skills you need.

And for the conditions you surf in, a slightly bigger board might be better anyway.

However, $250 seems like a bargain and there is no reason why you shouldn't buy it and give it a go - if its completely hopeless, put it away for 6 months and keep working with your current board; if you can get a wave or two and are willing to work on it, then keep using it in appropriate conditions. If you keep surfing regularly and want to go shorter, then one day you will be able to surf it, so its not wasted money in that sense. You will find it harder to paddle and you have to sit deeper (closer to where the wave breaks), which requires a good knowledge of the waves and the risk of wearing a bomb set on your head (because you are too deep to paddle for the unbroken wave) - but these things come with time.

I know, through personal experience, that you get to a stage where you just want a new board, want to try a new board, see what you can and can't do with it - and if you can afford it, scratch that itch to your heart's content. Its why people end up with 10+ boards in their quiver. Some boards work, some don't, some are ok, some are a waste of time and money. You can only make an informed choice and see what happens. As shorter boards go, for your skill level, the Addvance is a great choice and you are asking the right questions and will understand the benefits and problems associated with getting it.

Can you duck dive it - probably but it wont be a deep or long or easy duck dive because its still a pretty high volume board. I'm 80kg and have a board with a similar volume and can get it just deep enough for most waves if they aren't too big (but then get pummelled when I get it wrong..). However (a) my board has less volume at the nose than the Addvance, so probably is easier to duck dive, countered by (b) I usually surf boards that I can't duck dive and so I look more like a goose than a duck - someone more skilled can probably do things better.

drowningbitbybit wrote:That'll probably be a bit too small, but not ridiculously so. If you keep on practising for a while on your 8' and get your skills sorted, you should be able to transition to it but...

As for duckdiving that board, possible but again, you'd need the skills. The board won't do it for you (incidentally, you have no chance on your 8', so learn to turtle roll).

From what you've said about your experience, I'd say that you should stay on your 8' for a while yet and get the basic skills under your belt.

Makes sense, I just want to be able to maximize my opportunities to surf, which means going out in overhead to slightly overhead conditions (6-8 ft?). I can turtle roll alright but getting out in 6-8 ft with quicker sets is still pretty tough. Also, I find that in those conditions I often pearl with my 8'0" (would taking off earlier mitigate this?).

Is there a board that can fit the bill here (6'8" - 10") that I can duck dive without tremendous effort? I guess this is sort of irrelevant as my next board will probably have to be in this size range anyway. Some boards that caught my attention were the Addvance/Dominator, Hypto Krypto, Average Joe, Lost RV. Is it too early to get a custom for these needs (Vernor is local and makes boards for about $500-600)? Or should I just pass up going out in overhead + conditions for now?

dtc wrote: And for the conditions you surf in, a slightly bigger board might be better anyway.

However, $250 seems like a bargain and there is no reason why you shouldn't buy it and give it a go - if its completely hopeless, put it away for 6 months and keep working with your current board; if you can get a wave or two and are willing to work on it, then keep using it in appropriate conditions. If you keep surfing regularly and want to go shorter, then one day you will be able to surf it, so its not wasted money in that sense. You will find it harder to paddle and you have to sit deeper (closer to where the wave breaks), which requires a good knowledge of the waves and the risk of wearing a bomb set on your head (because you are too deep to paddle for the unbroken wave) - but these things come with time.

Can you duck dive it - probably but it wont be a deep or long or easy duck dive because its still a pretty high volume board. I'm 80kg and have a board with a similar volume and can get it just deep enough for most waves if they aren't too big (but then get pummelled when I get it wrong..). However (a) my board has less volume at the nose than the Addvance, so probably is easier to duck dive, countered by (b) I usually surf boards that I can't duck dive and so I look more like a goose than a duck - someone more skilled can probably do things better.

Got it, super helpful feedback. I'm hoping to progress to Ocean beach and just get out as often as possible at other nearby breaks which often hit overhead and have quick sets in the winter (for more options very close to my home in SF), otherwise I'd probably be content with my mini-mal for quite some time. Conditions out there are pretty rough to learn on with a mini-mal hence the interest in a board geared towards steeper waves but still relatively easy to paddle. I see your point though about just practicing more as I do see some longer boards out there in somewhat steeper conditions. Just wanted to see if there would be a board better suited to make the learning easier.

Thanks!

enjoy wrote:Just wanted to see if there would be a board better suited to make the learning easier. Thanks!

Just to be clear, the board that makes learning easier is the one you have (longboard). A short board is harder to surf - less able to catch waves, harder to paddle, less stable (probably), more 'twitchy' (good when you know how to control it, bad when you don't). Perling is almost always not paddling fast enough; inability to turn is not having the right technique. None of those are cured by getting a shorter board - in fact, shorter boards expose your technical deficiencies to a much greater extent.

Shorter boards are for when you feel you want to move on; they aren't for making learning easier. Everything about surfboards is a trade off - easier to turn means harder to control, more rocker allowing for steep take offs means harder to paddle (out and when catching waves); shorter boards means a much narrower wave catching range (ie: positioning becomes much more important).

But...if you want to move on, then the Addvance is a pretty good choice.

enjoy wrote:Is there a board that can fit the bill here (6'8" - 10") that I can duck dive without tremendous effort? I guess this is sort of irrelevant as my next board will probably have to be in this size range anyway. Some boards that caught my attention were the Addvance/Dominator, Hypto Krypto, Average Joe, Lost RV. Is it too early to get a custom for these needs (Vernor is local and makes boards for about $500-600)? Or should I just pass up going out in overhead + conditions for now?

Duck diving is obviously about technique, but also about board volume (you have to be able to displace the same volume of water to get the board under the water). And a bigger board will have more volume. But a bigger board is easier to catch waves with. Trade off...

Other than the Addvance, I would say most of the boards you have mentioned are for intermediate surfers. But you are never 'too early' to get a custom - if he is a good shaper, you can have a meeting and say what stage you are at and what your needs are and the shaper can tell you what board will suit. Looking at the Vernor website, they have a few that look ok for you - the big cat and the hybrid (<- looks good), maybe 'the rubble'

Uncle Jaffa's thoughts on this.
If your session is 5 or 6 waves straight to the beach then you are in no way ready to go shorter.
The Haut shape is capable of being turned on a dime, your ability is not, going shorter will not change this , YET!
Your pearling is from trying to take off straight to the beach as the wave steepens you cannot do it unless you can turn.
Try angled takeoff that put you towards heading down the line.
Short board at this stage will make you a whumpormiss.
You will paddle drop into the white water still going straight in a more critical part of the wave, the forces there make it very hard to pop up. Or you will not generate generate enough speed to catch a wave.
WHUMPORMISS.
Getting skills is about catching waves and riding them, it is not riding white water straight to the beach, it is being able work with the wave as it changes and runs.
Everyone goes through your stage. read through all the advice.
Good surfers can do just about anything on any sort or size of wave , long or short board.
Equation = get skills decide how you want to surf, x get board that suits after getting skills.
To balance the equation in other ways add exponential frustration over increased time = same result.

Got it, thanks dtc and Jaffa. Yeah I guess I'm just eager because the price on the Addvance is good and it'd be a likely candidate for the next board. May check it out and if the condition is good pick it up for 6 months - a year down the line... after I've practiced more with the Haut. Gonna start trying to start doing 1 hr sessions before work to get more reps.

dtc wrote:Other than the Addvance, I would say most of the boards you have mentioned are for intermediate surfers. But you are never 'too early' to get a custom - if he is a good shaper, you can have a meeting and say what stage you are at and what your needs are and the shaper can tell you what board will suit. Looking at the Vernor website, they have a few that look ok for you - the big cat and the hybrid (<- looks good), maybe 'the rubble'

When I called the shaper he actually initially recommended the thumbtack in 6'10". A local shop that sells his boards recommended the bazooka, which seems somehwat similar to the hybrid you mentioned. Hybrid seems pretty close to my current board just shorter so it probably makes sense to just stick with what I have. Would the hybrid make a better step-down board later vs. the Addvance?

Thanks guys

A good clue for secondhand boards. It is a good idea to wonder why the guy is selling it.
ie, " this is a really great board, it would suit you." yeah right, would be my thought.
Although there are often cheap sales as wives can force a sale "surplus surfing equipment" for strange reasons.
Having spoken about length, if the board is something you aspire to and you like the price , buy and plan your surfing evolution to that end.
Realistically though get your surfing to being able to ride well down the line and then buy something, you'll have more idea of what suits.

Thanks for talking some sense into me guys. Gonna try angling my takeoffs and getting bottom turns down. Will work at it on my Haut until I can actually ride the wave as opposed to riding down and to the beach, then consider going shorter!

Fixed

Enjoy you've actually just levelled up in your progression welcome to the next stage of your surfing!! BOOM

Wanted to get your guys' opinion on if my Haut is more of a classic mini-mal shape or a hybrid/funboard shape. The more I look at it the more it looks like a hybrid to me with a pointier nose and and more rocker than I usually see in mini-mals. What do you guys think? Also, are hybrids supposed to perform better in steeper waves / turns but paddle slower than mini-mals? Should be more versatile right?

https://www.dropbox.com/s/29ybt44wneypl ... 6.JPG?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/zobe9zag9ugfr ... 5.JPG?dl=0





if these images aren't working it looks very similar in outline to this 8'0" Haut hybrid board so I guess it might be it

the rainbow stripe board looks to me as a mini-mal. It has a medium size squash tail. Most hybrids I've seen from shapers have swallows or wings steps.

I think you're to stuck on names. One shaper may call his boards a funboard, while another shaper may call it a hybrid, etc. Just because it is or it isn't a hybrid or funboard doesn't mean it's limited in what YOU can do on it. Is it the arrow or the Indian ?

What you can do to change it for different surf conditions is changed the fins. Try getting a smaller 3 1/2 in fin for the center box. That will help it act more like a hybrid.

waikikikichan wrote:the rainbow stripe board looks to me as a mini-mal. It has a medium size squash tail. Most hybrids I've seen from shapers have swallows or wings steps.

I think you're to stuck on names. One shaper may call his boards a funboard, while another shaper may call it a hybrid, etc. Just because it is or it isn't a hybrid or funboard doesn't mean it's limited in what YOU can do on it. Is it the arrow or the Indian ?

What you can do to change it for different surf conditions is changed the fins. Try getting a smaller 3 1/2 in fin for the center box. That will help it act more like a hybrid.

Got it thanks. Given the stats 8' x 2 7/8" thick x 16 1/2" N x 22" W x 14 3/4" T it should be a good versatile board for my level right (in terms of learning on various size waves)?

With regards to the fins are you saying because it has the large center fin it won't turn as quick as 3 similarly shaped fins?

Thanks!

Boards be it 1 fin , 2 fins , 3 fins or 4 fins won't turn quickly or more slower without the riders input. If you want a more looser feeling and like to "pump" the board, then try 3 fins all same size set-up like a "thruster". If you want the more cruise and glide feeling calmer upper body, than try with just a ( appropriate ) center fin. That said, if you don't know how to bottom turn and control /set your rail, turning with any fin set-up won't matter.

The teal green surftech Haut is a thruster set-up and has a narrower tail than the rainbow board. It's a fun all around board. Yours does seem to have a bit more nose kick, but I wouldn't worry about it unless your noseriding.

**I would still buy that 6'6" firewire if its a good deal and keep it for later on.

by the way, I'm thinking that boards close to 15+ years old. That Gorilla grip is from that time period. Also i can almost make out the "original" FCS logo. If it has fins fanned out in a circle, than thats from that time also.

Yeah it was shaped in 1993, says on the board. Should I be considering swapping out for a similar board but newer, or are you just saying the board may be more prone to breaking? There are some Trueline and Mike Doyle boards going new for ~$450 in my area.

The nose kick on my board doesn't really affect paddling/wave catching too much though right?

This video might help you on your steep take off issues. As the guys said, you would have to start turning as soon as you drop to avoid a straight down (easier to pearl) drop in.
Maybe holding your rails will help you at first, it makes your weight automatically go to your heels and the board turns (in case youre surfing a backside wave). It makes a little harder to stop the turn in my opinion though, but I surf a shortboard, so this might not be too much of an issue on a longer board.

It sounds a bit confused, but here is the video if it helps!